On this episode of Fight the Good Fight Club, co-hosts Marcel Pope and Cynthia Cintron dive into the topic of finding peace of mind and discovering what is disturbing us. Through various personal anecdotes, they explore how relationships and past events can impact our inner turmoil. They discuss the concept that everyone has their own approach to achieving peace and emphasize the importance of acknowledging and dealing with anything that is disturbing our peace of mind, no matter how small or insignificant it may seem. They also reflect on the lesson that "I am never upset for the reason I think" and how it can help individuals uncover the root of their unhappiness. Throughout the episode, the hosts encourage listeners to take responsibility for their emotions and work towards inner peace, viewing it as an ongoing marathon of training.
On this episode of Fight the Good Fight Club, co-hosts Marcel Pope and Cynthia Cintron dive into the topic of finding peace of mind and discovering what is disturbing us. Through various personal anecdotes, they explore how relationships and past events can impact our inner turmoil. They discuss the concept that everyone has their own approach to achieving peace and emphasize the importance of acknowledging and dealing with anything that is disturbing our peace of mind, no matter how small or insignificant it may seem. They also reflect on the lesson that "I am never upset for the reason I think" and how it can help individuals uncover the root of their unhappiness. Throughout the episode, the hosts encourage listeners to take responsibility for their emotions and work towards inner peace, viewing it as an ongoing marathon of training.
[00:00:00] Marcel: Hi. Welcome to Fight the Good Fight Club. I'm Marcel Pope.
[00:00:20] Cynthia: And I'm Cynthia
[00:00:21] Marcel: Cintron, and we are your host today.
The purpose of this podcast is to share conversations inspired by a Course and miracles. It is a book that consists of three different parts, a text. Lessons and Emanuel for teachers. We're gonna focus on the lessons and one in particular today, and the lesson is on forgiveness. But before we get started, share a little bit of history on why we are starting this.
My whole life I've been searching for truth and peace, and I've searched for and many places from books of the Mind. To the [00:01:00] Bible, to books on enlightenment and spirituality, and I finally have found what I've always believed. Any answer we are searching for to life's questions are within us. It's not in a book, it's not somewhere posed.
It's always within each of us. I've always believed that, but I never knew how to find it within me. And so ironically, this book I've had it. For over 30 years, it was given to me. 1991, the one that was given to me was signed by the guy that gave it to me, and each year I would try to start the lesson.
There were 365 of 'em and I'd get sidetracked sometimes. The second lesson, this went on for 30 years, so last year I was determined to finish the lessons and. I started and I finished. I did not miss a single [00:02:00] lesson, and as it was going through, as the book says, miracles started happening and what type of miracles.
Nothing to do with physical miracles. Didn't get the winning lottery numbers. Didn't figure out how to get, a $10 million home on the beach cuz that wasn't what I was looking for. The miracles I was looking for was eternal peace within myself, cuz I know there's peace in each of us, but that's disrupted through life and that's what I personally was looking for.
If you've ever heard that song by you two. I still haven't found what I'm looking for. Every time that song came on, I'm like, damnit, I still haven't found what I'm looking for because I've been looking for this. And finally I found it. And that is the purpose of this podcast. When you find something that you feel is very important to share.
Then you want to share it, you don't keep it to yourself. And I've been [00:03:00] searching for this my whole life, and it just happened to be this book back in 2011. I read the entire Bible from Genesis to Revelations. It took me from January 1st, 2011 to February the fifth of 2012, and I still remember a lot of the stories.
I wanted to do it for myself, but I still felt, I didn't really know what I was looking for, but then I finally started the Course in Miracles and that brought it all together. And so all of these books that I've read, spiritual books, enlightened Books, have helped. But right now, course of Miracles has really brought it home for me.
And With that in mind this is probably looking back, been the most happy year of my life in many ways. And it's because I've been able to let go of a lot of things that have happened that have brought me sadness and loss, and those are the things I really wanted to overcome. And that's why it relates to today's topic of forgiveness, because you cannot find the [00:04:00] peace within yourself unless you've let go of things that.
Grievances, so to speak. Maybe someone's done something to you and you've held on to the anger, the resentment and then you never let it go. So today's lesson really about forgiveness is not only forgiving, but actually how to forgive. In my own life, I've always thought about things that have happened to me and I thought, But when it came down to it I really didn't.
And I, I just didn't know I wanted to let things go, but I really didn't know how, and I knew that I hadn't forgiven 'em. Cause I would think about the person or whatever happened and I would still feel, a tinge of anger or whatever and, ah, they should pay, karma gets to, they will get their karma and it's to me, you haven't.
You haven't forgiven. If you feel those things and not for nothing else, when you have [00:05:00] that energy in you, you will never have the peace. It's almost like you're craving let's say, and you're in a room and it's hot and you look and there's a heater, and you, okay? I don't want to be hot.
But you don't turn off the heater, but yet you don't wanna be hot and you don't want to turn off the heater. You can't have both. So if you want peace and you want happiness and stillness within, you can't hold on. To grudges, don't want me to get rid of those. Grudges is to forgive. So you get, you turn down the heat, make it comfortable for yourself, get still by turning off the heat so it's not hot anymore.
And but how do you do that? Because invariably, I personally, I've always not to wanted to not be hot, but I didn't want to turn off the heater in this analogy. You gotta let your grievances. Go. And I never knew really how to do that or proof to myself that I had done it. And so that's why I think this very this [00:06:00] episode today is probably the most important one.
I thought, would it be about love? Would it be about, peace. But really I think in this world it's really about forgiveness. And a lot of times I have a. Lot of people, and as it comes down to it I find myself saying the last couple years if I leave today and get hit by a bus, I would want to know that this conversation we had would be the most important one we could have ever had.
And I think that's what this episode's about is forgiveness. And this, I can't imagine a greater conversation we could ever have other than this topic and why it's so difficult. And yet it's so easy and but it's the hardest thing to do even though it's so easy. So we're gonna talk about how to do that.
And my co-host today, Cynthia, Is also my life partner, and she and I have [00:07:00] certainly have been on a journey together. We both have gone into our past, shared our past, and we've been able to forgive, and I should say we're learning to forgive because it's a work in progress. Say, okay, I forgive that person, but I won't forget.
So that's not forgiveness. And all you and to use one final analogy, it's like if you like a still pond, if that's representative of, and there's a big, and you continually throw rocks in it, or someone else threw a rock in your pond, how to remove that rock. So the ripples start, stop him and.
And whatever that could be, you're trying to eliminate the turbulence so you can have the peace in you. So again, at the intro, the terms relentless pursuit and I personally feel like I, I have found it and it's and to really build upon it. And it is a work in progress cuz I find myself sometimes thinking about [00:08:00] certain things that have happened from certain people that are still going on and it's still to continually forgive as they.
They do what they do. So anyway, thank you for listening here today and Cynthia and I are gonna share some things together, Cynthia.
[00:08:16] Cynthia: Yeah, absolutely. So thanks Marcel for. Having our listeners understand what our what our premises and why we're doing this. It is really important for us to, I know for me, for myself to get on the path to forgiveness within oneself and then share that with your partner.
Marcel and I. I think one of the things that, that has worked for us in our long relationship is that we recognize the importance of loving ourselves, finding forgiveness within ourselves, handling the business that we each have hi individually in this life, and then [00:09:00] bringing it together so that.
Can share those parts that grow our relationship. Marcel explained the journey of forgiveness within himself and the grievances that he's had with people. And we've had many conversations about our. Individual journeys, and it's really laid such a deep foundation of intimacy and closeness between us.
Sometimes it gets a little complicated, sometimes, we wanna judge each other in the, why can't you do this? I remember one time I was going through something.
I had a 30 year separation from my family and families evolved. Change and they go through things. And at this stage in all of our lives it just seemed to be the right time for the family to come back together.
And there were some very deep, [00:10:00] painful grievances. I don't, I can't imagine that I know. Anyone, even the best families that, that I've known, and I've known several that are just beautiful. But there's always stuff that goes on and there's stuff that you hold onto. You're angry, somebody didn't apologize, and we didn't accept the forgive, we didn't accept the apology.
The person continues to do the same thing over and over again. Or we don't have the courage to, to face the truth. What will happen if we're honest with that person? So there's so many things that cause grievances, grudges, that require forgiveness to be able to really move forward in joyful, fulfilling relationships.
And it's really deeply personal. How you get on that journey and how you move through it. And like Marcel was saying, it's not, it's almost not really an arrival point. [00:11:00] You do get to a point where you're, where you can, and, we'll, Marcel and I will cover this later, where
you may feel that you've arrived at a place of forgiveness, but Forgiveness is something that, that you never just do and you're done for the rest of your life.
There's, it's you check in, it's like getting an oil change. You have to, do that, tune up, do that oil change, maintain, right? Correct.
[00:11:27] Marcel: Yeah. So you have to practice it on a daily basis. And believe me, I, within myself, I fail a lot with a lot of these ideas. And but it's a relentless pursuit, a continual being persistent to arrive at what you really want.
And for me it's, I'm in my fifties, I'll be 54 this year, and I'm realizing what do I want more in this world than anything? Selfishly, I just want, I want peace. I want to be okay when I wake up. I don't want the past to. Caused me any pain or angst or regret. [00:12:00] I don't wanna have any anxiety or worry about the future.
And I have children and what I hope for them is that if they were, if something happened to me and they never heard from me again, God forbid that, that this podcast would help them make it through the rest of this crazy world we live in. And that. We can navigate once we find the source of strength within ourselves, and it doesn't depend on someone or something, or, any amount of money, any amount of car, any career that no matter what comes their way, they will be able to handle it.
So this podcast if they tune into, that's really what anybody. And so this, whatever this fu. View moments we spend together, anybody could tune in and go, wow, that guy's dying breath. That's what he would say. He, that's what he would say you, that this is, it is to [00:13:00] Yeah. The emotion and I know you to know what I see in you, I see in myself is that it. It does when you know that there's certain things that you think about and it just s and it just reaches so deep. Marcel's been through some really major life events as well, and for me, I just, I mentioned, the separation in my family.
[00:13:24] Cynthia: And we did that in stages. My, my brother, my, my brother's family wanted me to forgive my parents. And that was, again, it was a 30 year separation. And Marcel. My, my boyfriend wanted me to forgive my family, and I just, I knew I wasn't in that space yet. There were things that were holding me back.
There were issues that I didn't believe were resolved. And I think when I think back on it now,
I think that I was afraid of being hurt again. Feeling [00:14:00] that pain that caused so much Yeah, just so much pain. I just didn't wanna go there again. And I thought and I had packed it all up. I'd put it away and it was on a shelf somewhere and I was really comfy and cozy and happy not dealing with it.
For years I just moved beyond it and I was done. But life changes. My nephew was born. My family, we evolve as human beings and circumstances dictated that. For me, after much thinking and soul searching that I would take that step to towards my parents really wanted to, my father really wanted to reconcile with me.
And so I, we had a phone call. We just had a phone call and then we had another phone call and we kept it light, and then we had another phone call and then I was [00:15:00] invited to the house. For dinner. Oh,
[00:15:06] Marcel: Your death dinner potentially with a shrimp.
[00:15:10] Cynthia: What a mess.
So some context for you that my, my dad and I so we, in my adult life, we. Hadn't had a relationship. It's just very complicated on many levels. But just to, for so that this isn't a five hour show episode my mother the crux of the issue was really between my mother and I, and my father just got caught in the crossfire.
And you all, I'm sure listeners listening and going, oh yeah, I know you know how to fight with my sister-in-law and my brother's caught. And you, I haven't talked to my brother forever because my sister, by the way, my sister-in-law's an angel. I love her crazy. And I love my brother too. But so I go to dinner.
My mother and I are face to face. We're both really strong women and we sit there [00:16:00] and what I found out, what we both found out later was that both of us were afraid that we each hated the other one. So neither one of us wanted to let our guard down. So what happened in real time was a total mess.
Picture Bambi on the ice. We're having small talk, we're insulting. She's insulting me left and right. Doesn't even realize it. I don't, but she just doesn't know she's it's just a mess. We're whatever. So then I go home and decide to do it again. Because I had committed to my brother and my boyfriend and myself that I was gonna give this that I was gonna do this, that I was I wanted to create an atmosphere at least that when family, the family got together, that it would be peaceful.
So it took a couple of meetings, and then one day my mother opened the [00:17:00] door a little crack, and I opened the door a little crack, and we, I said, To her, one of the most frightening things ever. Do you want to be friends or do you just want to be civil? Because the answer would be horrible, right? It would be no, I really don't care.
Which is what she told other family members, again, in protective mode. And for me, I just, I really wanted to be in peace, and I think that this is the crux. Somebody asked me now, all these, all this a year later how were you able to get on the road? How were you able to forgive? How was your mother able to ask for forgiveness and you accept her apology?
And I said that what I really believe is that when what you are trying to achieve you, when you know your goal, [00:18:00] And that goal is greater than anything else that can happen around it. That's where the focus is, and for both my mother and I, the focus was on creating something new and making a wonderful experience for her grandson, my godson nephew.
So we were focused on the family. We weren't focused on the fighting that we had done. So when that happened and we got really with each other and just, asked each other for. Put stuff on the table and just had honest conversations. And it was a series of, I don't know, eight or 10 conversations that seemed to last for hours and hours.
But at the end of the day, I'm sitting here a year later and my mother's one of my best friends, my myself, so much time with my parents and Like my mother said, she said, Cynthia, we mature, we [00:19:00] grow, we change, and I wanna be in relationship with you.
[00:19:07] Marcel: That was the bonus you expect cause your mother was the gatekeeper to your father.
And there was a dynamic there. And so she finally gave quote permission for your father to speak with you. Yeah. And then you spoke to them for two minutes. Then he goes here, hands the flow to his wife, which is your mother. And the irony is you and your mother speak for every 10 minutes you speak.
You and your father speak 15 seconds. But he
[00:19:35] Cynthia: did call me the other day yet. Yeah. When he wants to talk to me, he actually has to call me separately cuz my mother and I are on the phone for an hour just talking about all kinds of stuff. It's crazy. We're. Such alike. Yeah. We enjoy each other so much now.
I, it really was, it was a decision to get honest. Yeah. It was a decision to forgive. My father asked me before we actually got together I know [00:20:00] cuz obviously he was terrified of all of us. It was like World War III in the Cuban household. My,
my father said, do you have forgiveness in your heart?
And I said, yes, I do. If we can get honest. And if we can move forward in a healthy, honest way yes, absolutely. I'm ready to move forward. And my mother was too, and we just found one thing that was a common ground and then just started talking and just laid bare. And I think it takes an enormous amount of courage.
She was. Not accept her. And I'm her daughter, I'm her first born and she's my mother. And we never established a relationship when I was younger. But funny enough, both of us have so much in common and we look alike. And she ha was 21 years old and she made a lot of cakes. [00:21:00] And that's the other thing, put yourself in the other person.
You have to get humble. You have to dig deep. Just like our intro says, I got really humble and I really thought, I really put myself in her shoes. Thought, who was I at 21? What did I know? How could she possibly have felt coming to this country, getting married? Pregnant, all, within six months it must have been terrifying.
And I told her that. I said, mom, I could imagine if I was in your shoes, I probably would've been a pretty angry person too.
[00:21:45] Marcel: What thought came to my mind when you were saying that is, is whatever happens to you is what you know, so you usually project that and perpetuate. Your experience to whoever, it doesn't matter who, it could be your own [00:22:00] daughter.
So I have to explain when I said the death Cynthia's allergic to seafood. So when we showed up, they had a nice spread and the center of the spread with these huge jumbo cocktail shrimp. Cynthia goes, see, she's trying to kill me and she's not here. And she says, try shrimp.
[00:22:25] Cynthia: And then she said oh, except you Cynthia, because you're allergic to SH shrimp. She's allergic to shrimp and it's the centerpiece of the first dinner after 30 years. It's Uhhuh. Oh then
[00:22:37] Marcel: But she's trying to kill me. I told you she was trying to kill me. There are other thing, and spare in the details and looking at the broad view.
There's a lot of stuff that. And when Cynthia was younger. Yeah. And that really caused her to, I guess you ran away as soon as you could. I did. I did. And were out on your own. And that's one of the things that drew me to you when I first met you. Was [00:23:00] that you just were a street fighter. Didn't care.
You just needed it where you didn't want to be. You took a chance on when you left and you learn how to fight. You're very street smart. Very delicate as well. Oh, so but it, so that forgiveness aspect. Yeah. So I don't know if you want to do the spoil alert on what I said about why can't you forgive? Yeah,
[00:23:21] Cynthia: so I think that's actually, that's really important because it brings in, when nothing happens in a bubble.
In relationships. Yeah, you may think it does. You may think that grievances that you have with people are separated from your relationship. The reality is that it spills into your life. What happens at work spills into your personal life. What happens in your personal life spills into your work life.
My not having relations, Marcel had a really, and he'll share with you a really horrible experience [00:24:00] happen. And we were at dinner one day and we'd had, a glass of wine or two, we were getting a little too real. And
[00:24:11] Marcel: I put on my condescending a holier than th mighter than you hat.
And I said,
say it. I said, I forgave the guy that murdered my br. Why can't you forgive your parents? Yeah, and I get emotional because I guess I've said that a thousand times now and I didn't tear up once. Yeah. But I guess it's because in context it's because I feel I'm living my life purpose. Yeah. And that's why these are tears of joy.
Yeah. So my brother, my oldest brother was like a follow me. We were extremely close. He taught me how to fish. Said to, so why I'm getting upside now. I have forgiven the guy.
[00:24:58] Cynthia: Because you're in that, you're in
[00:24:59] Marcel: that place. I'm [00:25:00] happy that, and I can send love to my brother's murder. Yeah. And it took me a long time, but really it was very condescending and she and I do a lot of work, but it was somewhat egotistical.
Hey, it was, I forgave the guy that, why can't you forgive your parents? She says, excuse me, scooted her chair back. Throw the line in my face. She goes, that is so condescending. No, actually what?
[00:25:26] Cynthia: What I said to you was, Path of spiritual
[00:25:31] Marcel: you are sure. And but so
[00:25:35] Cynthia: nice, really nice
[00:25:37] Marcel: Buddha and it's like, Hey, I quit drinking.
Why can't and so I backed off. I never, but then coming back to the topic here, which is for. Think my throat's not slit, so I guess she did forgive me
[00:25:56] Cynthia: so well, you don't know what I did. I actually took your toothbrush, brushed the [00:26:00] toilet brush. No, I'm kidding. I'm
doing,
[00:26:03] Marcel: that's okay.
I won't tell you what I did with your toothbrush. My.
[00:26:11] Cynthia: That happened and actually the next morning I was, I I looked at him, clearly understandable, that I was a little bent and I looked at him, I said, seriously, you're gonna judge. My forgiveness. That's a personal journey. You have no idea what's gone on. You were right in all of my years in your own time and you were amazing as well.
You looked at me and you said, this was really important too, because when he said this to me, it resonated so deeply. We were having this conversation. He said, I just want you to feel the same piece that I feel. There you go, through the forgiveness of my brother. And I said to you and at [00:27:00] that moment, and that's where you dig deep and you get humble, say to me, look, I know I said that.
This is why I said it. It came from a place of love. It came out like a total. Really, I just want you to be happy because I love you and that meant so much to me. The fact that you cared, and to want that for me as well. And interestingly enough, a year later, by the way I call it the Cintron Forgiveness tour cuz Marcel and I have been down to, to visit my parents for you.
We've eaten, we've gone to concerts, we've traveled. The best time, and it's been such a gift to have my best friend, my partner the person who's on this relentless journey to joy and happiness and peace with me. [00:28:00] Being that litmus test and the same way that I've been with him through the stuff that he's going through.
We're both, like I said it's not a destination. Forgiveness is like that train, that rail, that Amtrak it stops at different points all the time, but it the, the next day there's always a tune up on that forgiveness. Something new to forgive even with yourself or whatever.
Sure. And my it's been such a gift to have to, for us to do this together. But my forgiveness of my parents has, by the way, I never looked for it. I just didn't care. I was done. I'm that person that if it's done, it's buried. I never wanna hear about it again.
[00:28:45] Marcel: Doesn't matter. I'm gonna quote what you told me when I first met you.
My parents are dead to me, is what you said. They're gone. I buried 'em in my mind. I'm gone on. Yeah. And it's you. And I'm like, wow. And [00:29:00]
[00:29:00] Cynthia: this girl's for real. Okay. Yeah. I wanna date that. I wanna date crazy so I'm
[00:29:07] Marcel: not crazy. You said you're French, you're a Cuban, you're Lebanese, and you said that French will make you a wonderful dinner.
So the Cuban will make you a wonderful dinner. The French will romantic you, but then the Lebanese, and she took her thump. It was a knife blade and went rented from, and I thought, okay, that's exciting and I'll keep it moving, so
[00:29:29] Cynthia: I'll keep it moving. But yeah, what I think what people oversee or don't realize or don't know, Check into a place where you've had a, you've felt a wrong, you've gone to forgiveness, and then check into where, and the result of that forgiveness.
And it's so powerful. For Marcel and I, it's created a deeper level of intimacy and [00:30:00] relationship and knowing each other, we have the. It's just been really amazing. I never thought, and I've actually had some friends say to me that have known me for 30 years and Cynthia, you just seem lighter and I can't put my finger on it.
I can't say that like my entire world changed overnight and music played and it was epic and all this stuff and there wasn't a moment, although the where it really turned between my mom and I But I will tell you that the gift that I've given to myself, that I've given to those around me and that my mother has given to herself and that we've given to those around us, has been unexpected and truly epic.
It
[00:30:53] Marcel: has. I've been firsthand witness to that and just yeah, so sparring, all sparring, [00:31:00] all the of lurid details of the bad past. Her parents bought a ticket to a pit bull concert and they went last. That was amazing. And
[00:31:13] Cynthia: Oh, and on that note, we'll be right
back.
[00:31:31] Cynthia: Okay. We've talked about my family. Marcel, you tell you had
[00:31:37] Marcel: some thoughts. Yeah. So regarding forgiveness, I guess if you look at it and think about it there's two examples of my life. One is I feel that I have totally forgiven.
And there's no going back. There's no waffling back and forth. And then there's another one that is an ongoing forgiveness. So I'd mentioned what happened to my oldest brother [00:32:00] in a nutshell. He was literally sitting in his kitchen table eating a hot dog. And this guy comes in and is robbing him.
And then he had a girl with him and the girl went in the back. Room was trying to get what she could. And the girl heard the guy go, my brother say, yeah, don't point that gun at me. And then all of a sudden, boom. And so shot my brother, killed him. And so my brother was a really good guy. He lived in a rough neighborhood and, but he was such a good guy that there were people around that heard what happened and knew who did it.
So the cops started casing and they caught the guy bottom line, and they caught him drinking a beer going down the road. And they brought him in. They said, oh, by the way, Listen to this. And they were telling, and so they arrested him for murder. And the, so the trial date came up, they picked a trial and all that but to cut to the chase, the guy was found guilty, he got a double life sentence plus 25 years.
And [00:33:00] one for burglary one life senate, one for murder, and 25 for arson. And just the graphic details. I'm gonna tell him he tried to burn my brother's body to dispose of the evidence. My mother does not know that to this day. So you think I should hate the guy? So during the trial, it was in Jacksonville, Florida.
My brother Mark Pope. So we're sitting there. And what I was selfishly happy about myself was I didn't want to cause a dramatic scene on, for the news where I leap out of the courtroom and grab the guy you murdered. My brother and I didn't feel any of that. And I think it was a lot because I'd been su pursuing, peace within for a long time.
And I actually felt bad for him. But the reason I was, and I guess this is a key point of forgiveness. It was easier for me to forgive the guy that murdered my brother than my sister's husband and for the things he had done to my family [00:34:00] so here's how I was able to forgive my brother's murderer in the courtroom.
After it was done, I was looking at this kid's family. When the verdict came out, I saw them weeping. I thought, oh my God, they lost someone too. And in fact, My one brother from another mother killed my brother. And so we went up, I went up to their family. I said, I'm so sorry. We were crying and hugging, saying, I'm so sorry, and they said, we're sorry.
He did what he did. And I said, I'm we just, and that moment forgiveness was done and a little while later a few years later I met this guy in business and I'm, I kept saying, Dawn, haven't we met at a conference or something? He's no, man. He goes, no I didn't go to that conference or whatever.
So he met for an hour, he left, and all of a sudden it dawned on me he could have been the twin brother of the guy. That killed my brother. And I [00:35:00] was happy cuz it didn't trigger any negative emotions or anything. I wasn't feeling uncomfortable, and I, and So with that being said, I think about the guy and so I'm gonna talk about how to actually forgive.
But before, before I do that, so I forgave him and I send him, I think about him sometimes a conversation. I send him love and I send him light. I hope he's doing okay. I hope I don't wish bad things are happening to him while he's in prison. I hope that he finds peace within himself. In fact, I send it to him.
I thought, I hope you're receiving this peace I'm sending you now. On the other hand, last year, roughly this time, I get a phone call from my mother, come get me. She lives in Jacksonville. So I went in there and got her. She came down to stay with me and has never left. She's 84. All of a sudden I hear all these horrible things that my brother-in-law has been doing to her stealing from her possession, stealing money extorting money out of [00:36:00] me using her to do it.
And she had some grave plots that she had nine and He conned her into signing those over to her, and of course I'm angry. The guy and I haven't been able to forgive him, so I've been trying to, so I thought also this show would help me forgive him. And and you're more apt to do something when you throw it out there.
You don't wanna be a hypocrite. And preparing wasn't even really preparation for the show. I just thought of what I would, the topic I'd talk about. And it's really him. So in my heart, I have forgiven him. For the things he did. Even though I have asked him and my sister, just please give those grave plots back, return some of the things you took, and they don't even respond.
They don't even acknowledge. They deny it, in fact. So I let it go because I realized holding on to that, Like that heater in the room. You'd want it to be cool, but you don't want to turn off the heater. I'm turning off the heater, I'm letting it go. I'm forgiving them now. I'm [00:37:00] picturing him. So this is how I'm doing it.
I say I'm doing it cuz I know I'm gonna have a, a backslide or whatever. I'm sending him light, I'm sending him love. And And this is how I did it. When we were, when I was about 12 years old, he and I were out in a canoe and the anchor got stuck. He told me to swim down at an UN and unhang it, and I was only 12 While I swam down there, I thought, okay, he's making me do this.
So I pick up the anchor, I think it was around 10 or 12 pounds, and I almost drowned, but I didn't let go of the anchor. I made it to the top and barely made, almost drowned. So I was holding that against him, see other things besides what he did to my mother. So I thought, okay, I'm gonna bundle everything up.
I'm holding against him into that anchor. And here's the key point of what I've learned about forgiveness. He, I confronted him, he completely forgot it. He didn't even remember. So that anchor has in it the things he did to my mother, the things he did [00:38:00] to me, and I dropped it. And the anchor. I pictured it going to the deepest of deaths to oblivion, and I let it go.
And I now I'm sending him light and I'm sending him love. And I know that it's probably gonna recur, but honestly, I'm, I feel so much relief. And that's a topic giving is receiving. I want forgiveness, I want peace. And you only. Get it if you give it. And in my mind I'm saying to him, look, I've been holding onto this anchor of grievances.
It's not even affecting him. Probably it's affecting me cuz I'm holding onto it. That's right. So I've forgive him by letting it go and letting it go. I have for forgiven him is forgiven myself and I let it go. So now if I think about him and I have a problem with it, I feel anger. I'm going, you know what?
I dropped that anchor a long time ago and I'm gonna stick with it. And I know it's taken, I'm probably 90% more [00:39:00] along forgiving him. Closer to a hundred. I hope by stating this and trying to share forgiveness in how to do it. Cuz I really, I want to be rid of those feelings. I don't want 'em anymore cuz I know I want to be cool.
I'm getting the heater out of the room. I'm kicking, I'm not turning off, I'm getting rid of the heater altogether. So really that's one was a permanent forgiveness already. The other one's a work in progress, and I do feel, I feel relief. I don't want to hate him anymore. I don't wanna be angry at him.
And I know that he's probably still gonna try to do some things if he does, you know what? I forgive him already. And my, I don't wanna even talk about my sister who's right in there with him.
[00:39:38] Cynthia: Yeah, and I've done some forgiveness exercises also in some workshops that I did. And one of the things that they said dovetailing into what you're saying, where you're d dropping the anchor they added on to that.
I forgive you, and I set myself free. From the things that are holding me pack. Awesome. And that's what's happening here, because that's what you're [00:40:00] doing when you're forgiving. I'm sending myself free. You're setting yourself free. And it doesn't require the other person to say they're sorry. There you go.
Yes. It doesn't require, when I went through that exercise of forgiveness with my mother, I really wasn't expecting anything from her. Yeah. The apology from her was a huge bonus. You have to for me, not you, me. When I go into a thought of forgiving somebody and setting myself free from something that is really hurting me or bothering me or holding me back from accomplishing the things that I wanna accomplish.
It really is about my experience. If you are waiting, if you have expectations attached to it, if you're waiting for your brother's murder to say, sorry. If you're waiting for your brother-in-law to say he's sorry, if you're waiting for that, you will wait till the cows come home.
That's it. It's just and your happiness and joy are not, should not.
Cannot be dependent on what someone else does. [00:41:00] So important.
[00:41:00] Marcel: E Exactly. And that those like a was talk mentioning in the beginning. Everything that we ever need is within us. The moment we look for something outside of ourselves or counting on someone to forgive us or say it or to say, I'm sorry.
Yeah. So you have all the power within you to let it go. So it's not outside of you, it's in you. So the fact that I let that go all was within me independent of whether he says I'm sorry or acknowledges it. He's a non-factor and the whole thing. Yeah. So if nothing else, again, you give Yes.
What you want. You get what you give. And again, this is totally about the internal facets of us as spiritual beings,
[00:41:46] Cynthia: right? Yeah, definitely. I think that it's really important. I know that
it's been important for me to really sit down and be honest with what outcome serves you. Yeah. What do you wanna [00:42:00] accomplish when, when I went into the forgiveness with my parents my goal, Was to create an environment that was peaceful and healthy for my nephew.
So it was just to be civil. So it was a small goal that it, that would make, that would satisfy me, that I would be okay with. Yeah. That was, so that I can move through this and I would just let everything else go. And I think that's the thing that, that really. Help does.
I'm really fortunate.
I'm super, super fortunate. My mother and my father. Where they've been through a lot also. Oh yeah. With their kids or whatever. And and they're in a place now where they have everything anybody could ever want in their lives, but they want the love of their kids. And so we were all ready.
We were all at that place where we were ready to do this. And interestingly enough, I wanted to bring this up real quick cuz I, [00:43:00] we're gonna wrap up soon and Marcel and I wanted to touch on, we found an article that talked about five. Ways to tell if you have forgiven. And sometimes you don't know.
Cause we were talking about this, it's like, how do I know if I've even forgiven this person? It's I'm not sure. So I went online, I started doing some research and I found something that really felt right and we'd like to share that with you. But just recently, a few weeks ago, my something came up that was reminiscent.
Of something that would ordinarily in the past, send me through the roof and normally would cause me to just lock it down, shut it down, and end the relationship with my parents. So it's just one of those things that happen cuz it's really important. People don't just stop doing, scorpion is a scorpion, a frog is people are who they are, and you really have to meet them where they are. If you wanna be in a relationship with them. This situation came up. It [00:44:00] caused a little bit of grief between Marcel and I. He checked in on, on, he made clear what he needed. I made clear what I needed. I took some time.
I stepped back and I thought about. What do I wanna accomplish? What do I need? What does this grievance really mean in the scheme of things? So I didn't act rationally. I didn't, make phone calls. I didn't yell, hop and hop up and down and scream, yell. I was angry by the way. I was in my, I was like punching a pillow.
I was fit to be tied. I was. So mad. I can't believe we've gone through all this and now this happened. This is over. I'm gonna shut this down. We're not gonna have a relationship. I went all up in my Cuban female woman's self. But I felt my feelings and then I settled down and then I really thought about, okay, what does this really.
In the context of my life, in the context of all of our lives, and Marcel and I spoke and we [00:45:00] came to agreement on how we were gonna handle it. And I'm very happy to say that not only did it work out, it's the outcome was even better and we're so good. And for me, that tells me that I've really learned how to let that go and that my relationship and my happiness and my joy.
And the people that I love, their happiness and their joy is much more important to me than holding a grudge that means nothing and it's just pain.
[00:45:27] Marcel: Correct. Yeah, and another key concept here is about forgiveness. Sometimes if you remove yourself from the equation, and I said to Cynthia,
you're and your mother probably are identical.
I bet the things that have happened to you probably happened to her, and then she projected 'em onto you. So they're, I've always. Believe this. I believe that too. Yeah. Hurting people hurt for sure. Inside. Yeah. And then as a consequence, they hurt others. Yeah. So you're just passing along the hurt until you realize what you're doing and become aware Yeah.
Of what's [00:46:00] happening.
Yeah. And I think it becomes a, at a place to where. Okay, I'm losing, forgive I guess it's okay to say this, but at some point you had said to your mother, is it okay if we just move forward and go on without saying specifically? So at any rate so
[00:46:18] Cynthia: yeah, just generally.
Yeah. I had a feeling,
I had a feeling that something that had happened to me as a child had also happened to my mother. And and I asked her, Yeah. And she said yes. And that was actually the starting point of our having conversations. Yeah. I was right in my assumption. Yeah. And we had a common hurt.
Yeah. Because we're all human beings. My mother and I had a common hurt. And when we, when I told her that I believed her and that I supported her, and that I was sorry that happened to her in the same way that it happened to me, and she said she was sorry as well, it gave us a common ground. To start from.
Absolutely. And it was a seed. Yes. And it was pretty amazing.
It was that first
[00:46:59] Marcel: [00:47:00] conversation and I and in two, not even your defense, but I can tell you that I see you have forgiven them. Yeah. Because if we see like a residual. Action from them that may seem like who they were. We laugh about it. We laugh.
Oh my
[00:47:16] Cynthia: gosh. And that is a great segue,
[00:47:19] Marcel: Marcel, because we know who they are.
[00:47:21] Cynthia: Exactly, and that's an, you're true. You're right. And that's actually a great segue to this article. So we want every episode we'd like to leave somebody with something that we use to help us. Get further along in our path, right?
I found, we found this article on i disciple.org.