Fight the Good Fight Club

Understanding Holiness and Overcoming Pain: Lessons from A Course in Miracles

• Cynthia Cintron, Marcel Pope

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In this episode of the Fight the Good Fight Club podcast, hosts Marcel and Cynthia delve into how the understanding of holiness and spiritual wholeness can transform suffering and pain into joy, peace, and a fuller life. Drawing from Lesson 38 of A Course in Miracles, they discuss the distinction between being whole and being fragmented by earthly experiences. The conversation explores the spiritual and human aspects of existence, emphasizing forgiveness, letting go of victimhood, and the power of holiness to heal and unify. Through personal anecdotes and deep reflections, Marcel and Cynthia illustrate the journey from fear to love, and the realization that true peace comes from within. They address the challenges of applying these spiritual lessons to relationships and everyday life, showcasing the path to a happier, more fulfilled existence.

Chapters
00:00 Diving Into A Course in Miracles: Understanding Holiness
02:27 Exploring the Spiritual and Physical Aspects of Being
04:46 The Journey from Pain to Forgiveness and Peace
28:59 Navigating Life's Movie Sets: Choosing Light Over Darkness
30:21 The Complex Dance of Relationships: Engagement, Fears, and Growth
44:01 Finding Peace Within: Lessons from Therapy and Spiritual Insights


[00:00:00] And we're back. Marcel and Cynthia talking about. What are we talking about today, Marcel?

Well, here at the Fight the Good Fight Club, we're always talking about a lesson from A Course in Miracles. And today, it's Lesson 38. There is nothing my holiness cannot 

do. And now, holiness is spelled 

H O L I N E S S, but what does it actually mean? I thought 

it was spelled W H O L I N 

E S S. But really what it means from A Course in Miracles is 

Oh great, so we're totally confusing, [00:01:00] so off the bat we're confusing 

the audience.

No, so holiness, what does holiness mean? It means that you are whole, perfect, and complete. You're w h o l e. You're whole. You're not fragmented. You're not separated from your life source. And holiness means you. It's a knowing that you are inseparable from the oneness. Of all that is. So this is for the benefit of you really because you get scared when I mentioned God and stuff that we're going to leave somebody out who's spiritual and doesn't believe in one.

Yeah. And I agreed with 

that. Let's explain this to our audience. So Marcel and I, when we're doing our lessons, I am, I come from this we place. I am a we. I'm always thinking about all the people around us. I'm thinking about, you know, making sure that, um, I really want. I want people to come on this journey with us.

I want them to pick up what we're putting down. You got me? I 

got you. So what you, [00:02:00] you want to make sure that people don't confuse form with content. And as I'm trying to go through this content, you don't want me to lose it in the form, right? So what's the, 

there are, we were talking about this last night too, that you come, you come from the spiritual part first, like you lead with your spiritual foot and I lead with my.

Human foot 

foot. Yes. And that's the perfect lesson here. Yes. 

There is nothing my holiness cannot do. So the holiness comes from the spirit. Okay. So spiritual aspect of, of our minds, but somewhere along the line, the fact that we're here, all of us, our minds, are split and fragmented and it feels as if we're separated from our life source.

And this is really for, uh, as the term was used, people who experience a lot of pain, who live in pain, who are suffering, who are victimized. So all of those feelings come from [00:03:00] an aspect of our mind that goes with this earth. So there's a spiritual aspect to us. And then there's a divine aspect to us, right?

Or a human aspect, I'm sorry, spiritual and divine, and there's also a human physical, right? So the human physical aspect is what we're talking about here, because when we say there's nothing my holiness cannot do, we're talking about that spiritual, divine aspect of our minds. 

So, we come whole, beautiful, perfect.

That's that. So, over here on the other side that we feel separated, autonomous beings that, we're egos, we identify and believe we are the body and we are of the physical 

world. That can be 

broken. That can be broken. Can be, can die. Can, 

can, can die, 

can be attacked, can be exterminated, 

but 

[00:04:00] if you really think about it.

All right. I can't speak for you, but I'll speak for me. There are so many times in life where I felt so much pain and suffering because of what did I lose? Well, uh. There's limited time on Earth for everyone, so I lost people that I wanted to spend more time with, and I'm like, well, they were nipped early in their age, you know, for whatever reason.

You know, I've lost two brothers. This point doesn't matter. They're not here anymore. How they went is immaterial to me. They're just not here, and I can dwell on that, but So, what did I lose? Well, what I, what I lost was people that I wanted to spend more time with. That, that's in my mind, but what did I really lose?

No, I mean What about them? Their time on this earth had come and gone. And I'm not to question how or why. 

It's just Accept it because I'm gonna stay over here and realize I'm spiritual being I'm still here And I'm gonna continue to live live my life as happy as I can and not get caught up So so going back to the lesson, there is nothing my holiness cannot [00:05:00] do so for experiencing pain Over here in this part of our mind because we've identified with this world and all of us craziness and we believe we're a body Then The holiness inside of you.

is being blocked by whatever you're feeling over here that's the pain, the suffering, the, you know, the 

harm. Feeling of loss, feeling of abandonment, feeling of victimization. Feeling of 

being attacked. All these negative things. So those thoughts you're holding on to are blocking the holiness in you. And again, it doesn't have to be, again, we're keeping it generic, right?

It's this idea that the life from which we all come, I mean. If you're here and, quote, living, there's life in you, no matter whether that life is perceived to be good or evil or whatever. It's still life, and so it comes from somewhere, right? Somewhere. So that source of life is what we're talking about here.

We're never separated from it. And I really, I've been really getting this. It's like nothing really bothers me [00:06:00] anymore. It's like I woke up the other morning and I thought, I forgive everyone for everything. Just forgive everyone for everything. And when I realized what I did, I wasn't holding onto anything.

of, you know, judgment toward anyone for anything. And when you, when you don't hold any of that, guess what? There's nothing but the holiness, peace 

and joy 

and happiness. I felt so peaceful. And then I thought of a few people that, that I used to get angry at for stuff that they quote did. I just, it doesn't matter anymore.

It just, it just doesn't. I don't, cause I realized when you hold onto that stuff. You're, you can't hold on to that and have peace. It's like if you have a still pond, and you're constantly throwing rocks in it, and you, but you don't like the ripples in the pond. Well, quit throwing rocks. But you keep throwing rocks, and the ripples keep, well, stop the ripples.

Quit throwing the rocks. Quit having those thoughts. So I forgive everyone for everything. Well, what about Hitler? What about Mussolini? What about Pol [00:07:00] Pot. What about Jean Claude Duvelier? All these people who committed genocides. Uh, Vlad the Impaler. One of my favorites. That Russian guy is awful. What about them?

He's your favorite. It's just It's just awful, but What a name. Vlad the Impaler. They actually have a statue of him in Russia. I mean, it's like, but what about all the, well, I forgive them all for everything. My 

favorite evil guy. 

And that's the thing. When you can laugh about what used to be evil and cause you pain, it shows that you realize you're only here and this is nothing but a giant stage play going on.

We're all actors on it. Bad stuff happens and quit judging. Quit judging. Yeah. Just quit judging because the moment you start judging, You cloud in your mind and you're cutting yourself off from the holiness that you are because when we go this is all like a It's almost like we get glimpse of a spirituality while we're here.

I think when we're spirits we get somehow a glimpse of The human hell we experienced on earth, the [00:08:00] things we saw. Oh my God, the things we saw, the things people do to each other, you know. And so there is nothing my holiness cannot do. It's a very, this is actually, it's part of Lesson 58. Cause now in the book, they're, they're summarizing five lessons at a time.

The first 40 lessons are being summarized. I'm sorry, the first 50 lessons are being summarized five a day for 10 days. So 5 times 10 is 50. So this is part of the group and I really got it this time. So your holiness, uh, when you think it's a knowing, knowing that you are inseparable from the life source, you cannot be separated, you cannot be broken, you cannot be harmed.

It is the spiritual aspect of your mind. The split, separate part of our minds that we all have, we can start We're thinking from that part of mind, that mind, rather than knowing from the truth, we're thinking with illusions. We believe that this [00:09:00] world is all there is. We are bodies. We identify that we are the body.

So that phrase, they took my innocence, well, we all know what that means, innocence, like whatever, virginity, or whatever, they took my, I was, I didn't get a chance to grow up, that happens in this world, but your real innocence is that we are an extension of life itself, that's the real innocence that, that you want to come from, that innocence can never be taken from you.

The spiritual aspect of ourselves. It's never broken, never has been, never will, never been fragmented, never been separated. It always has been, is, and always will be perfect, whole, and complete. And that's the whole, sum, and substance, I believe, of most, uh, studies of spirituality. Just trying to feel better on this earth, right?

I I told you well you and I didn't want any more pain I didn't want any more [00:10:00] aggravations. I didn't want any and do they pop up sure But it doesn't matter because I forgive everyone for everything and what that means is I'm not holding anything in my mind against to anyone, even people on TV or whoever, this person, I'm like, wow, their minds went crazy.

They did this to those people, their bodies, but those people's spirits are still intact. I hope they see that. And that's what I do now. If I see something that used to tick me off or make me feel judgmental about what should happen to this person because they did this and they did that. How about the people who are deemed quote guilty and all of a sudden comes to find out they were framed and they never really did it, you know?

So it's like, so that's why I see, you know what? I know that look on your face. It's like you're spewing BS now, Marcel. Thank you. No. 

The look on my face 

is I know that look. 

No. That's the look on my face that I get when I'm like, Okay, Marcel, but we are human [00:11:00] beings. This is true. Here, life happens. It's kind of like when you wake up in the morning and that first moment When, when you're waking up and right before you start to think about, and there's a realization of your day, of your circumstances, of the things that take you completely away from feeling.

Completely whole and perfect and beautiful. You wake up and everything is wonderful. The sun is shining. The birds are singing. And then all of a sudden, it's coming to you. Like for me, when I'm, when I'm on deadline, I, with my business. It's like everything is beautiful and then it's like, oh my god, I don't have all my articles in.

Oh my god. I have to get those contracts. I have to call this client. This is horrible. And then it's like, ah, and everything clenches up [00:12:00] and reality comes to the forefront and the birds aren't singing anymore. Everything isn't perfect anymore. I have to have a coffee and I have to get on with whatever I have to get up.

That's the, the look is okay. So when we were talking about this lesson, when I asked you, Marcel, what's the lesson for that we're going to talk about? The first thing that came up for me was thinking, wow, the, the biggest thing that keeps. I'm going to talk about myself that keeps me from feeling whole w h o l e is the feeling of victimization.

Okay. Right. Sure. Um, and I thought that that would, that would probably be where we could help people connect to this. All right. 

All right. I want it. So. 

So why don't we take a break? Yeah. Um, let's go ahead. So that's the look [00:13:00] like, okay, this is a great segue. Now into let's define it in real world terms, right?

So that people can grab hold. You've got 

to remember to me, we're talking on a couch, but you're, you're trying to, I understand. I do babble. Sometimes you 

go off into this, into the ethereal. And I know I just feel I'm beautiful, wonderful. We're just beautiful beings. And I'm like, yes, Marcel, but then we wake up.

Well, then stuff happens, 

you know, I've been through a lot of pain and suffering, so don't choose that anymore. Well, 

well, so the last before we go on break, what happens is that every single day we are going back and forth, right? We are feeling we are in that place, but we're fighting the good fight, 

constantly being aware of the fight that's presented in our minds.

Choosing to let it 

go. So when we come back, we're gonna get in that ring, we're gonna put on our gloves, and we're gonna talk about how this looks. 

[00:14:00] Absolutely.

 And we're back with lesson number 38 from A Course in Miracles, There is Nothing My Holiness Cannot Do. And we are talking about what this means in almost a perfect world, right? When you're sitting and you're realizing that you are a beautiful, perfect, whole being and then life happens and the cracks show up.

If that's true, why does all these bad things happen? . Right, right. And why do these things happen in the world and why, why have they happened to [00:15:00] me? Why are they happening to me if that's all the time. True. And I think that was the look part of it. You know, uh, I'm not, some pollyannish nirvanas like, oh, everything's beautiful.

The birds are chirping and the pyramids are generating all kinds of energy. You know, I'm not, but, 

but, but it's great. You know what if you don't have that as a goal, if that's not, if we don't have that realization Yeah. Like when you're born, you're perfect. Yeah, 

exactly. So. 

Then what's the point, right? We want to be perfect.

We want to enjoy this beautiful world you know and when I think of our intro and I see if for people who watch our YouTube part You see the intro and you're climbing up mountains And you're holding hands and you're frolicking and everything is beautiful and perfect and then you know the S happens The shit happens.

I can say that actually. Then shit happens and you're like, What the heck, man? Where's, where's the 

good stuff? [00:16:00] That's right. And so we get lost in the shit and we forget who we are. And that's what this whole course is about, is pulling yourself out of the shit so you can live that life. And we all, everyone has their shit, and you really look at it.

It's all the same. It's it's only half a dozen shits. It's it's somebody 

screwed. There are six shifts. That's it. Just in case anybody was wondering. That's right. And 

it's going to be in fact, I would argue it's only is is is probably it's really one is pain. Well, and, and, but pain comes 

from suffering.

It's anger, it's it, well, the feelings that we have, it's fear. Fear is the number one that will that. Right. That's at the base. Yeah. Right. And then it's covered up. Yeah. With shame. Yeah. With anger, guilt, guilt. Regret, regret, loss. Abandonment. 

Abandonment. Fear of loss. Fear. Fear of loss. So all of those [00:17:00] are actually 

Victimization.

But they're, they all come from one word, fear. And that stands for false evidence appearing real. And it comes out of that part of our minds that believes it's separated from the oneness, the u a t, the oneness, the oneness of all. That is. O O A T I. Oneness of all that is. When we, that part of our mind feels separated, it feels alone, it feels abandoned, and now it's going to defend itself from all attack.

It's going to kill or be killed. It's going to, uh, come from a position of lack, limitation. It's going to be competitive. The end justifies the means. This is what I need to survive. It's all about a life and death struggle. Yeah. I mean, that dramatic, that's really how dramatic it is on that part of our minds.

If we could just picture ourselves holding on to that part of mine and just let it go [00:18:00] and just step over here to the oneness of all that is that we realize, Hey, I was never separated. That was like a bad nightmare, man. And truthfully, that's what it 

really is. But why is it so hard to let it go? Well, and the thing that we have to realize is, not only are we personally living in pain and anguish and hurt and all those things, but it completely keeps us from being in relationship.

That's right. We, you can't be in a healthy, happy relationship with your children, with your husband, with your, um, at work. Yeah. Um, with your friends, you know, if you are constantly in enveloped in this pain Yes. And this anger. So really identifying what it is. How, 

how, how am I choosing pain? Yeah. I didn't do this to myself.

This person [00:19:00] did this. Oh, um, so we're 

blaming you are so we're living in blame. Yeah. Okay. 

Well, we we were happily married and and He met some younger Version of me and he left me and he left me. Yeah, I'm actually met a woman that said that she was Vietnamese And 20 years they've been married, no kids, and then she caught him on the computer looking at young Vietnamese girls and divorced her, went back and got to quote her.

He got a 20 year old version of me like I was when he met me. And I felt bad for her, of course, you know. But, um, so, he disrupted her happiness, and boy, was she bitter about it. And I was like, ugh. So, we only dated like a month, but I really, I did feel bad for her. But I thought, I can't handle this anymore.

Every date, 90 percent turned into, He did this, and he did that, and I call him this, and I call him that. And I'm like, Okay. [00:20:00] And, uh, then I know. So my point is she was caught up in that part of her mind where she could, you know what he, he wanted the younger version. Go ahead. All right, I'll go live my life.

Why isn't it that easy? It's because we're so ingrained in the persona that we're building while we're on this earth. And that persona can be fractured. Okay, because we believe that that's who we are. We're this body, we're building this life, we're building this career. We're so wrapped up in the identity that our whole world crumbles if any aspect of it goes awry.

It's so difficult to, what I find, you know, and it's funny. You tell me often when you're reading, we're talking about the lessons, you're like, they all come together. They all, they all sort of pick up what other lessons do, and they all come together. And as we're having this conversation, uh, I, I realized that going from the injured party bridging into [00:21:00] the, uh, Letting it go, the forgiveness, right, forgiving them, forgiving yourself for being in that position.

Um, moving from a victim to a whole person and moving beyond that, that bridge right there, that's the hardest part. And when we were on break, you said to me, have you ever heard of an, a victim impact statement? And I said, yes, yes, yes, that's, you do that. The family then can get closure. So what were you saying to me?

Well, 

you just said something that's really amazing to me. You said that bridge that bridge. So you know what that bridge is in the course of miracles. That bridge is called the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the bridge from the one side who we think we are victimized to the others to the side of who we are.

So The bridge is the Holy Spirit to get over there. It's the spirit and essence of the oneness [00:22:00] of all that is 

Okay, you know we were watching the the shock. Yes the shock Yes, and you and I so Marcel and I you'd never seen the movie from the beer We read the book or whatever with long time ago So I said, let's go ahead and watch the movie.

And I think that we've even talked about The Shack way, way, way back in one of our earlier lessons. But Marcel, I said, let's watch it. So we sat there and the two of us are blithering idiots just sobbing and crying. . But that movie, there's a lot of truth. There's if, if anyone has the opportunity to watch this movie, and I'm not even talking about, and, and it's funny 'cause I pulled up the reviews.

The reviews are horrible. They're 

terrible. I thought they're all still playing the victim. Those critics . 

But it's terrible. But what, what I love about it from a very basic, basic standpoint, if you want to see and have an actual. Um, just example, [00:23:00] this guy, so the story is this guy, he loses his, he's got a beautiful family, they're on a camping trip, and then his daughter is, summarize, go on, yeah, I'm trying to summarize it, yeah, I'm just going quickly through this, um, the daughter is taken, and, uh, he then just is this really bitter.

angry person and he ends up going through and, and you, you can. Decide whether on your own, you could decide whether this is, he fell down, cracked his head, and this is just a dream that he's having, or did this really happen? But whatever the case is, he ends up at this shack where God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are, and they sort of take him.

through this entire process where he [00:24:00] comes into forgiveness and then comes back to his family. I'm sorry, spoiler, big spoiler, but it's really important because this is, this is our lives, right? We go through things that take our joy. They steal our peace, our innocence. They steal our innocence. They, you know, are we, did we go through divorce?

You know, where we, we lost physically assault. or whatever. That thing that, and it happens over and over again until we die. There are bad things that happen all the time. Yeah. And then do we allow those things to define us and steal our joy? We do. And the moment that we have the realization, That we don't want this to steal our peace and our joy is the moment that we put our foot on that bridge that Uh, where we start to come into [00:25:00] forgiveness, where we take responsibility for our part in it, where we can then come back to joy and then have that kind of relationship that we want to have.

Right. So Marcel and I are doing this all the time. And when we're doing this podcast, we're having these conversations and we'll fight, we'll, you know, bicker and we'll have, we'll pull up all this stuff where those feelings are coming up. And we'll realize it, and then we sort of go into forgiveness. You 

know, that movie, if you look back, we watched it on our own, together.

Yes. We had our own experiences. You weren't going, watch this, look at this. We were, we never spoke. Which is, we never do that. That's only the second movie we've ever made it through together. Yeah, we're super chatty. Cause all we do is talk. But anyways. 

We're like girls. Oh, did you see that? Did you see what they were doing?

Wait, hold on, put it on pause. Did you? [00:26:00] We're so chatty. 

Anyway. So, so the one other thing, um, that became, the knowledge came to me. This whole mindset. of the ego or that, let me say that part of our minds that believes are separated and believes in lack and limitation, hatred and anger and fear and all those things.

That part of us believes the outside world is dangerous and the outside world can come in and harm us. So, and that's where we're the victim. We don't have control. Over the things that can harm us, but it's all taking place in our mind. You say, what about the guy that shoots you? Well, we don't trust ourselves.

The guy shoots you and kills you. Well, he killed, again, going back to that funny thing. He killed my body, but my life was released out of my body, but my life's still intact. My real My eternal life, my spiritual life, that's who you really are. So you're here to have an experience. And granted, like, you know, when you make the [00:27:00] victim impact statement, when I looked at my brother who, who had gotten brutally murdered, and I probably shouldn't describe the gory details, but the bottom line is, the bottom line is, all that happened to him and, you know, it sounded like he had a quick death.

As you can tell, I'm not emotional at all about it. It's because I've, I've healed. I understand that stuff happens in this physical world. It's all just a giant series of happenings that are called meaningless in The Course in Miracles. What do you mean it's meaningless? It's meaningless, and this is the definition.

Meaningless things cannot change the truth of who you are. There's nothing that could ever occur on this planet, in this universe, that could ever change the fact that you're an eternal being. And realize, you know what? I am an eternal being. I'm just, I'm here having experiences. So, uh, once you get past judgment, and quit labeling things good and bad, things just [00:28:00] are.

They just are. Things happen. What about that person doing that to their, to their own kid, and doing, that's abuse. Yeah, I mean, if you want to change it, Become a politician or whatever, pass laws, you know, drop rules, regulations, whatever, to control those things from, they're going to continue to happen, is the spoiler alert, bad news, because As long as we're in this earth and there's humans that are, who can tap into that dark side of their minds where they're going to be lived out.

Some people want to dominate a person, some want to dominate a family, some want to dominate a corporation. Some actually want to dominate countries and control a whole country. Some actually want to overtake the world. And look at the annals of history. There are dark minds who are always trying to control others.

And don't want them, you know, they want them to, my mother believed that Hirohito was God. She's Japanese, so, before the war, she actually believed that that man was God. 

He [00:29:00] literally came out and said, we've surrendered. My mother said she was shocked. We thought he was God. Isn't that crazy? So my mother is the equivalent of my mother being told the earth is flat and she believed it, you know, so This whole idea of there's nothing my holiness cannot do so I realized there's an aspect of my mind that's experiencing all those things that we aren't all day So it's the healing of our minds is that bridge?

Leaving it's almost like you're in a bad movie set with all this bad stuff murder rape mayhem robberies, whatever You're like, I don't like this movie set. There's a, there's a walkway, a bridge over here to a better movie set. And we realize we have both movie sets in our head. So we can be on the movie set where all this is happening, but really have the mindset of an eternal being and realize, hey, this stuff happens, you know.

Here's the thing that we, don't, don't, don't, um, put, don't put [00:30:00] forth the things that contribute to the madness. Let's put forth the light. Uh, is, is shine up, shined upon the quote darkness and be a shining light rather than adding more to the darkness is really what I think. So that's, I don't get emotionally more talking about those tragedies and pains and sorry, go ahead.

Go 

ahead. 

Well, I wanted to, I wanted to, to bring it a little closer to, to, um, relationships. I wanted to bring it back to, to relationships because, um, everything that you're saying We hear and logically we understand and say, okay, that's great. But the reality is that every single day we're fighting that battle.

So between us, um, we, Marcel and I have been talking about, we've been together for, we're in our fifth year, right? Four years. And, um, this is the first 

time. Time wise, but I feel we've been together for an eternity. Aw, [00:31:00] thank you, baby. 

So 

cute. Limited hell. 

Oh my gosh. So, so, um, we are now talking about this year, getting engaged.

Yes, it's supposed to be a surprise. It's not. Thanks to my parents. But, this is the surprise. Okay, now we're gonna have a fight. Okay, no, but, um, this is so pertinent right now because here we are. We've studied, we've read 20 years of therapy for me, three go rounds. Um, with the Course in Miracles for you, you know, we think we, we know the answers to everything.

Well, guess what? There's stuff that come up between us, um, because we are human beings and stuff come up and we're vulnerable and we have fears and they will continue to come up. So we have been talking about what that looks like and we've been [00:32:00] really open in the conversations that we're having. Um, because of relationships that didn't work in the past and because of things that that can come up between us.

Um, we have discussions and we have our fears. I don't want to speak for Marcel and he doesn't want to speak for me. 

I learned my lesson on that one 

boy. Go ahead. Because we, we have actually, we're having discussions. Even, even talking about, you know, a ring. Right? Talking about that, you know, Marcel will say something, you know, has, has said something to me.

We've had discussions about it and it's brought up fears and it's brought up, um, different things, you know, even getting a house, you know, we've talked about moving in together and it brings up fears and it brings up stuff. So I guess my, my point is if you Are in a, okay, I'm gonna talk about, for me, I'm not gonna talk you, I'm gonna talk, talk about for me.

'cause I learned that in therapy, talk [00:33:00] about yourself, talk about in the eye because that's how you move through stuff and you know, and it becomes more real. Um, I have said to Marcel, I am afraid that you are going to control that part and I really want to participate and I am afraid. Because in a, in a past discussion, um, it felt like you took full control of that and because there's a lot that you know about that, and I don't, um, there are parts that we are expert in, in, in our business lives.

And um, You felt, I felt in our conversation, you felt like you were taking the burden off my shoulders of dealing with the minutia of buying the house. And I said to you, but I want to participate in that. We're a team. You and I are a team and we need to do this together. [00:34:00] We had a big, huge back and forth about it until you finally, where is it from?

Talk about it from your perspective. Talk about it from, from your perspective. So, 

so, you're talking about the house. I'm going to talk about the ring. Okay. So, I had mentioned to you before when I was married before, the, the woman I was married to, she didn't care what ring I got or she, she just wanted to be married.

And, uh, we actually had matching bands that were just plain vanilla. I mean, just, but it didn't matter. We both, hey, it's just a symbol. But there's, there's no value you can put in a ring that represents what we have or whatever. So, so, when you were mentioning, we don't need to talk about the type of ring or whatever, but the bottom line is, It matters to me.

I, I, I was judging what mattered to you based on my past experience. Mm hmm. But the, the beautiful part is, I was speaking my fears. And, and, brought my path and all that's been uncovered. I don't care what anyone in my past wanted or what they didn't want. What I care about is what [00:35:00] you want. And so that, that, I had to cleanse that, my past out of the equation and quit judging you based on what you want versus what I think you should want.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So that Well, so, so 

I, and we should, and we could play this out actually, it's, it's really pertinent when, when you said that to me. Yeah. I felt like you were judging me. Exactly. Because I cared. I wanted something. 'cause I don't wear a lot of jewelry. I don't wear a lot of stuff.

And I said to you and I got angry. And I said to you, well, look what this woman did to you. She didn't care. And you're, I feel like you're judging me and making me feel like I'm materialistic. And, um, so this woman, like you were, you were, you were holding her. Talk about 

her. Talk about. You can talk about me.

I'm talking about how I felt. Yeah, but you only have the one side for me of all that. What I'm saying is about, my point was, I was judging you. I think we're getting too in deep in this. No, this is actually really good because it's I was judging you [00:36:00] on how you felt. In a moment. And I was kind of telling you how you should feel is my point.

Yeah. I'm saying that I, I shouldn't be that way. Right. I should hear what you had to say and what you want and why you want it, whatever, and accept that and not, and not tell you how you should feel or what you should want. That was my, and I was doing that because I was living in the past, and that's what this whole course 

teaches.

And I felt, and then I felt judged. Right. And it hurt my feelings. Yes. And I'm like, how can you say that to me? I'm not a materialistic person. And we ended up having this back and forth, this fight. So but my point in wanting to play this out a little bit is that, that no matter how much you know and how much you think, you know, you have to be gentle with the people around you and we're still human and we still recognize that we're fighting this fight, the good fight all the time.

Um, and. [00:37:00] When we both realized that we're having this back and forth and you realized that it was hurting my feelings And I realized that you really didn't want to judge me. We then came together. We had a conversation about it We had a discussion about it. We were we were I call it. I I characterize it always as being gentle with each other Realizing, you know, this man loves me.

He doesn't want to judge me I have to tell him what I am feeling and the moment that I did that what happened was That you and I came together and realized man, I love this person. I love this person. 

Well, something just dawned on me. Okay, we were both comparing this situation to our past because you even made a reference to The ring and and a pass ring.

Okay, we both rather than looking at it in and of itself And this course teaches that we can we're bringing in past and ruining the present. Mm hmm. Okay, so we let all that go And so this lesson is there's nothing we 

let go [00:38:00] expectations And that's a big one. Yeah. I have an expectation and you're defending and you're like, no, you're, you're expectation.

I felt judged. And then you felt that I was judging your expectation 

and it comes down to what you're actually feeling. 

And then we both had to lay down arms and just say, okay, what is this really about? What this is really about is I want to feel that you love me and that I'm, that my feelings matter to you.

And then the same thing with you that. That you're loved, that your feelings matter to me, and that, really, it's about us coming together. 

And what did you say? Truthfully, if you gave me a cigar band, I'd be happy, but I don't want a cigar band. Yeah! 

Exactly! Exactly! And you know what? And I'm okay with it.

And you laughed, and you're like, okay. And you know what? 

Whether you placated me, or whatever, that's what I wanted to hear. Yeah! That's And That [00:39:00] The ring shouldn't matter. Yeah. And that was my point. Yeah. And it didn't matter in the past. Why does it matter with you? Was what is my condescending judgmental?

And we hashed it out though. Yeah. And you got really smart. And say, you saw me in this baby cigar band will do. In fact, I'll get the cigar here. I'll give you the cigar band to give to me and I'll be happy. Oh, isn't that 

sweet. Now let's go to the jewelry store. So 

now, so, but that was huge because it really was.

Yeah. Some unres, some unresolution. Unresolution. 

Within each of us. Thanks for doing that with me because it does. I mean, even just talking about it that both of us just got really tense and we're like, we're gonna have a fight about this. But, but, but I believe that in being vulnerable. And when you get sort of, you know, emotionally naked and allow yourself to, to be vulnerable and trust that other person and tell them what you are feeling, it [00:40:00] creates, what does it create?

It creates intimacy and it creates intimacy and that's when you are close with people. And I learned this was something that it took years and years. and years and years of therapy because I kept wanting to protect myself. I didn't want to be because I learned that when I'm vulnerable with somebody, they're going to hurt you.

When you show them your underbelly, they're going to hurt you. Yeah. 

And guess what? So you're in that mindset that people hurt men hurt. Yes. Hurt, men can hurt me. And so that whole mindset, you're projecting that out and guess what you're doing? You're thinking those thoughts and you're creating the men that will hurt, that will hurt you.

So, um, and it's crazy cause your thoughts do attract the things, the thoughts you're having are going to attract those things. And so, um, isn't it funny 

that that whole time you're like, I just want someone to love me. I just want to be in a, I just want to be in a relationship, but you're pushing, you're pushing, you're pushing people away because you are.

[00:41:00] being, right? Isn't it? Isn't it? 

And what do you do? The first thing you do is you, your, your thought confirmation. Push away. Yeah. Well, you're, you're bringing in information. Yeah. That maybe quote, fall in love with someone and maybe they really are a bad guy, but now you convinced yourself. No, I'm going to move on.

So how do you know what's real and what isn't right? Because that whole thing you were talking about, the ring was very human. What of some, you know, but There's nothing my holiness cannot do. It's realizing, you know what, I'm only here for a brief time. Don't get too caught up in the bad stuff that happens in this world to the people you love.

You couldn't prevent it or whatever stuff that's happened to you. How can you let it go? That's why the spirit of all that is good. i. e. the Holy Spirit, it, you can just bridge it, use that as a bridge and just walk off that movie set. Yeah. Why is it so hard? It's because we're so ingrained in that way of [00:42:00] thinking.

And that happens, right? 

Every single time. There's that moment, that moment when, when we're bickering and then we're like, we're going back and forth. And then we kind of get, we both get to that exact moment where it's like, I love this person. I don't want to fight with this person. How important is this thing to me?

So and then we both kind of let it go. 

So exactly. And so what I, what I did, I told you the other morning, I don't know why I woke up and I just, I just felt really depressed. And I remember thinking. I wasn't created to feel this way. I don't know why. I don't want it. And I just said, you know, Holy Spirit, please help me get through this feeling, whatever, because I don't want it.

I know there's an aspect of me that's complete, whole, eternal, but I don't know why I'm feeling this. And I just, I kept saying, I know you'll take it away. I know you'll take it away. I know you. And finally, guess what? It went away. So, so if you want to know how to do it, that's how I did it, I don't know, [00:43:00] to each his own, but to me it was a profound moment of finding peace within for myself.

I don't know why I had that feeling. I can't. Trying to figure out what I thought. No, let's let it go. It's there, but it can be taken away That bridge is waiting for you to walk across and you won't walk across alone. So that's really what 

I felt I love that and I want to and I want to leave this right here because I think it's Perfect.

Like you just you always just put us right at the at the point where we're ready to to go to the next segment So keep that thought. Okay, because we're gonna come back because that's a nugget And we're talking about how we, and I, I think that's a perfect example. So let's go ahead and, and stop there and come back and talk about how to find that 

bridge.

[00:44:00]

And we're back. We are talking about lesson number 38, there is nothing my holiness cannot do. And we've had a lot of discussion about, um, what that means. Uh, in terms of the Course in Miracles, we've talked about how it plays out in relationships. And now we are talking about how we can, um, apply that in our everyday lives.

So, 

a quick summary on there is nothing my holiness cannot do. It comes back to the duality of our minds. There's a real, quote, real eternal aspect. And then there's a temporary aspect. Physical aspect to our minds and it stands to [00:45:00] reason and we're in a physical world where that old saying we are in the world but not of it but we are in it and so but we can't get too ingrained which we all do have done or are doing we identify so much with the life we're building on this earth I'd mentioned I've watched a friend of mine who had known for a quarter of a century and saw her pass And I was there 10 minutes before I left, and then I got the call 10 minutes later that she had passed.

But I realized that her time had come, and just watching her, she was like, it was like on a 30 foot high tower, about to jump into a body of water. You know, adrenaline rush, like, you're going to take the leap of faith and jump in! It's like, you're going to take the leap of faith and leave the body. And I'll never forget that look, I've seen it before, it was really weird.

I'm like, man, this is really fascinating, you know, I'm like, so I said, I could, See, and I said, 

you know, you could see you said you said you could see the peace come up I 

said she realized I love you very much and you've had a beautiful life and I love you It's okay to go home and I kissed her on her [00:46:00] forehead and then I was rubbing her arm And which is really just skin and seriously skin and bones at that point and so but I wasn't emotionally torn up I knew that it was time for her to go home.

I said, you can go home to our father and to your husband. And then I left. And then, um, so I realized, so this whole idea is we can wait till that moment to walk across the bridge. I personally Always wanted to know what it meant to be, to lose yourself, to find yourself. The self you're losing is this one that's wrapped up in a world of victimization, of pain, of suffering.

You're going to lose that self of you, that mind aspect, those mental thoughts, and bridge over to the other side. And that's the self you find when you lose yourself, the negative self, the victimized self, you find your real self, the eternal self. That's what that, and this whole lesson, so I mentioned any lesson can lead you to this truth.

Because at the bottom of it, that dark [00:47:00] side is fear based thought system. The other one is truth based thought system, and that's the real one. Well, the real thought system, please stand up and that's it, right? So, so really that's what it's about and you say, well, an indication. So here's the nugget, an indication that you're coming from the fear based thought system is when you're feeling pain, feeling depressed, feeling suffering, you may be able to figure out why.

Okay. And, and maybe some need, I was the type that kind of needed to figure out why, but this last time I felt that, I had gone through so much, you know, uh, of pain and suffering that I felt from losing family members, things that have happened, I just don't want it anymore. So this last time I felt it, I guess I did it on faith.

I didn't need to know why, I just, I knew I didn't want it. Don't know why it's there. Don't, and I just said, Holy Spirit, please, I don't want this feeling. I wasn't created to feel this. I want to be whole, perfect, light, like. [00:48:00] I know, this is what I know, and all of a sudden, it went away. It literally went away, that feeling.

And I don't know what, maybe it was just residual, maybe there's still some residual there. I don't know, but to me, that's the solution now when I start feeling that way. I don't need to go out and buy something, go out and do this, or go out and eat something. It goes back to the purpose of this podcast. I found it within myself, which is what I believe.

All we ever really need, and need being, uh, our real selves, our spirit. All we need is within us. We just have to figure out how to get to it. What's blocking it, and here are the nuggets. What's blocking it, there's a bridge there, but what's blocking the bridge? You can leave it all behind, just latch on to the bridge and get over, but most of us, we gotta go through the, the crap that we were holding on to.

That's what forgiveness is about, letting go of that. You're holding a grievance, you're angry, anything can trigger it. Somebody cut you off in traffic, somebody on TV says something, or there's a personality on [00:49:00] TV that's always being like that, and they always get your goat, and they always piss you off, it's because there's something in you.

So, the nugget here is, is that bridge? And, and know this, if there's fear, aggravation, grievance, you're coming from the fear based thought system. And you don't want to do that anymore. Especially if you don't know if you want the pain and suffering and you and I were talking in therapy They teach you some people aren't ready to let go of it Yeah, and so if you find yourself, I mean, maybe you want to hold on to a little longer.

No problem It's an aspect of you. You've created. Well, you can always go back and pick it up You can always 

go back. I mean things don't disappear. Those feelings don't disappear one day you get 

tired of it Like I did I was sick that'll sick and tired of being sick and tired. Remember that from the 80s.

Yes I was sick and tired of Feeling sad that I'd lost my brothers, my soul, my, my one brother, the things we had gone through. I would, I got tired of it. I didn't, I didn't want to go the rest of my life feeling that. And I slowly let it go. [00:50:00] My, I see my mother is 85 doing it, but her, her true love, her second husband, his birthday was December the 1st.

And it came and went, and she didn't, and I said, Mom, I found a picture of him, very handsome guy, looked like Elvis Presley. And, uh, I said, You want to put this on? She goes, Nah, it's okay. She's let it all go. She's finding peace. So, so I guess time does heal, but hopefully, I don't know what life has in store for us, but I want to spend the rest of my life, whether it's one month or 50 more years.

That's a good goal to have. Yeah. Um, I don't want to experience any more past pains. I don't want any new pains. I don't want any past sufferings. And if I somehow visit them and feel depressed, I know how to get out of it now, if it were once. And I think it's like a muscle. It's, it's weak and flabby, but I know it's gonna get stronger.

Yeah. But I found, my belief came true. I found it within myself. I didn't need to drink, take a pill, you know, whatever. Go eat, whatever. Retail therapy, whatever, to get rid of that feeling. And, you know what, those are things, those are coping mechanisms, I [00:51:00] guess, right? So, I don't want any, I want, I don't want a coping mechanism.

I want the truth to set me free, as corny as that sounds. And that's really what this is about, the truth setting you free. So the, so the nugget here, again, is our minds, by default, appear split. But they're really not. But here on Earth, we're identified with a physical form that's limited, that's fear based, can result in pain, suffering, shame, guilt, regret, fear, anxiety, worry.

You know, things gotta happen to be happy or whatever. And once we, if you get tired of that, the ups and downs. People coming in your life and leaving you, and leaving you feeling worthless and alone. If you're tired of all that, that's, understand that you're coming from that part of your mind. You got a bridge over to the other side.

And, uh, just keep working at it. You know, uh, go see a therapist or whatever. I mean, this book tells you, this is, uh, this is cognitive therapy. We're healing our own minds with these thoughts. And it's within us to do, so. 

Brilliant. I [00:52:00] don't know that there's any, you just, you keep bringing it home. You're like the surfer.

You just surf all the way into the shore and bring it in and it's perfect. Just watching you 

just take it in. Well, you notice I haven't gotten emotionally upset talking about my brother's death like I was in the beginning of this. podcast because I was still working through it. I wanted to know how to permanently get rid of it.

It's probably residually going to pop up, you know, I'm sure 

it will. There's nothing wrong. I mean, we're not, we're not judging those feelings, but I think that when you, and I say this to, to friends when they go through, especially a death, my wish for them is that when they think of that loved one that they lost, that a smile comes to the face before tears come to their eyes.

So that they, you know, when, when they've gotten to that place, they're still with them, but they can enjoy them, can still experience them in a way that isn't painful. [00:53:00] Yeah. 

So, um, we got a couple minutes left. So I guess something just kind of in my mind is that. I can't talk about it. What are you doing?

Because I didn't feel whole enough for you. What? Yeah. I wanted to be whole for you. Oh. And I needed to work through that stuff. You make me cry. 

Stop. So, 

and I'm being serious because I knew there was residual crap from past relationships and I didn't want to bring it into this one with you, but that's why I've been telling you and working on myself.

Maybe there's women that I still quote, had feelings for or unresolved things. And I, And I, You don't deserve that. Thank you. You deserve me whole, perfect, and complete like I am and I don't want to screw that up for myself and dump it on you. 

I love that. Well, for 

me. And that's really why I'm studying all this so hard.

It's for you, baby. 

Aw, honey. It's all about me. Really? It's just 

all about me. I want to be whole. I want to be who I was created to [00:54:00] be in this crazy world and let that other aspect of me go. But really, that's why it's been taking time because, and you told me the other day, Damn, it's a good thing we didn't get married right when we 

felt like it.

Well, for me, from my part, bringing in what I was really worried about, what I have never ever been able to do, and I realized it in talking to you and going through this relationship with you is, I've never been actually connected. I've never been able to be present in a relationship. I've always kept people at arm's distance, um, cause I felt safe that way.

You can't abandon me. You can't hurt me. If, you know, if I keep you far away. And the thing for me with our relationship is that I was afraid of being, um, Close to you. I didn't want to get married. You know, having a boyfriend is easy for me. Just go over there, you know, come and go [00:55:00] whatever. So actually allowing myself to be vulnerable in a relationship.

And I do that with you. And I didn't want to marry you until I knew that I was going to be in this for 50 years. Well, here's the 

thing that that may be the real nugget standing up right there. Okay, is what you just said. You are coming from that fear based thought system. Totally. Based on the past, based on fear, past experiences.

Totally. All that, victimization, all that, okay? And so now, same thing with me. So, the real you can't be hurt. Right? And if you go to that mindset, of course, things can happen. You 

can get hurt. Oh yeah, I just had a, a, yeah, I'm going through a situation with my, with my parents. So, but I'm, but the differences in my past, I would have cut them out of my life.

This is now. I'm living relationships completely differently than I ever have in my entire life. And I don't know if you saw that, like, this is happening right in front of your eyes. I've grown up right in front of your [00:56:00] eyes. I am, I am working on being an emotionally mature person. Person for the first time in my life, and I'm a you know, I feel my emotions, but I'm still Doing so this is this is life changing for me as well.

So 

you're so you have the the mind That's connected to the body and the mind that's connected to the spirit and that's why we get so confused in life one It's sometimes we're coming from the one when we should be coming from the other But, and when we think we're the mind that's connected to the body, that's where all the pain comes from.

If we can somehow step over and realize those are just experiences, all experiences, that the spirit mind is experiencing through the body mind, but that will go away one day and we become the spirit mind again. So realizing it's all, you know, just all the pain and all the things that go with it. Wow. 

Man, you just.

Took that whole that was bonus bonus bonus nugget. Okay, [00:57:00] that's our show. So we Can't wait to see get see you next. Wow. You just totally rocked my world Okay until next time keep fighting the good fight. It's totally worth it 

namaste