Forgiveness: Release the Pain to Find True Happiness, Episode 1.1

Forgiveness, the choice to set oneself free from resentments, anger and expectations in order to find peace and joy. Based on lesson 121 of a Course in Miracles. Marcel and Cynthia share personal insights and stories from their own journey - individually and together. 

Transcript

Welcome to fight the good fight club the podcast about the Relentless pursuit of a life and relationships filled with purpose. Love joy and peace. If you're ready to get real and dig deep, then you're ready for fight the good fight club. 

Hi, welcome to fight the good fight club. I'm Marcel Pope 

and I'm Cynthia Cintron and we are your host today. The purpose of this podcast is to share conversations inspired by A Course in Miracles. It is a book that consists of three different parts of a text lessons and a manual for teachers. We're going to focus on the lessons and one, in particular, today, and the lesson is on forgiveness. But before we get started share a little bit of history on why we are starting this 

My whole life,  I've been searching for truth and peace and I've searched for and many many places from books of the mind to the Bible two books on enlightenment and spirituality and I finally have found what I've always believed any answer we are searching for to Life's questions are within us. 

[00:01:16] It's not in a book is not Somewhere posed it's always within each of us. I've always believed that but I never knew how to find it within me. And so ironically this book I've had it for over 30 years. It was given to me 1991 the one that was given to me was signed by the guy that gave it to me and each year. I would try to start the lessons. There are 365 of them and I'd get sidetracked. The second lesson this one on for 30 years. So last year. I was determined to finish the lessons and I started and I finished I did not miss a single lesson and as it was going through as the book says Miracle started happening and what type of Miracles nothing to do with physical Miracles didn't get the winning lottery numbers didn't figure out how to get you know 10. Million-dollar home on the beach because that's was what I was looking for. The Miracles I was looking for was eternal peace within myself because I know there's peace and each of us, but that's disrupted through life. And that's what I personally was [00:02:31] looking for. If you've ever heard that song, I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking for every time that song came on. I'm like damn it. I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For because I've been looking for this and finally I found it. 

And that is the purpose of this podcast when you find something that you feel is very important to share then you want to share it. You don't keep it to yourself and I've been searching for this my whole life and it just happened to be this book back in 2011. I read the entire Bible from Genesis to Revelations. It took me from January 1 of 2011 to February the 5th of 2012 and I still remember lot of the stories I wanted to do it for myself, but I still felt I didn't really know what I was looking for. But then I finally started the Course in Miracles and that brought it all together. And so all of these books that I've read spiritual books and light and books have helped but right now of course of Miracles is really brought it home for me. And so with that in mind a this is probably looking back been the happiest year of my life in many ways, and it's have been able to let go of a lot of things that have happened that have brought me sadness and loss and those are the things I really wanted to overcome and that's why it relates to today's topic of forgiveness because you cannot find the peace within yourself unless you've let go of things that grievances so to speak maybe someone has done something to you and you've held on to the anger the resentment and then you never let it It go so today's lesson really about forgiveness is not only forgiving but actually how to forgive in my own life. I've always thought about things that have happened to me and I thought I forgot forgave the people but when it came down to what I really didn't and I just didn't know I wanted to let things go but I really didn't know how and I knew that I hadn't forgiven because I would think about the person or whatever happened [00:04:46] and I would still feel All you know tens of anger or whatever and they should pay Karma gets to they'll get their karma and it's like to me you haven't forgiven if you feel those things and not for nothing else. 

When [00:05:01] you have that energy in you, you will never have the piece. It's almost like you're craving. Let's say you're in a room and it's hot and you look and there's a heater and you okay. I don't want to be hot, [00:05:16] but you don't turn. Off the heater, but yet you don't want to be hot and you don't want to turn off the heater. You can't have both. So if you want peace and you want happiness in Stillness within you can't hold on to grudges. Oh, let me get rid of those grudges is to forgive. So you get you to turn down the heat make it comfortable for yourself get still by turning off the heat, so it's not hot anymore and about how do you do that? Because invariably I personally I've always not at took wanted to not be hot, but I didn't want to Turn off the heater and this analogy. You got to let your grievances go and I never knew really how to do that or prove to myself that I had done it. And so that's why I think this very this [00:06:01] episode today is probably the most important one, you know, I thought would it be about love would it be about you know, peace but really I think in this world, it's really about forgiveness and [00:06:16] a lot of times I have A lot of meetings with a lot of people and as it comes down to it, I find myself saying the last couple of years if I leave today and get hit by a bus. I would want to know [00:06:31] that this conversation we had would be the most important one we could have ever had and I think that's what this episode is about is is forgiveness and this I can't imagine a greater conversation we could ever have other than this topic and why it's so difficult and [00:06:46] yet it's so easy. And I but it's the hardest thing to do even though it's so easy. So we're going to talk about how to do that. And so I my co-host today Cynthia is also my life partner, and she and [00:07:01] I have certainly have been on a journey together. We both have gone into our past shared our past and we've been able to forgive and I should say we're learning to forgive because it's a work in progress [00:07:16] you just okay? I forget that. Arson, but I won't forget that's not forgiveness and all you and to use one final analogous. Like if you like a Still Pond if that's representative of how you feel. Peace, [00:07:31] and there's a bit and you continually throw rocks in it or someone else throw a rock in your pond how to remove that rock. So the ripples start-stop emanating and whatever that could be trying to eliminate the turbulent so you can have the Peace So then you [00:07:46] so again at the intro, the terms Relentless Pursuit and I personally feel like I have found it and it's a and I'm trying to really build upon it and it is a work in progress because I find myself sometimes [00:08:01] thinking about certain things that have happened from certain people that are still going on and it's still to continually forgive as they continually do what they do. So anyway, thank you for listening here today and Cynthia and I are going to share [00:08:16] some things together.  

So thanks Marcel for having our listeners understand what our premises and why we're doing this. It is really important for us [00:08:31] to I know for me for myself to get on the path to forgiveness within oneself and then share that with your partner Marcel and I think one of the things that have worked for us [00:08:46] and our long relationship. Bishop is that we recognize the importance of loving ourselves finding forgiveness within ourselves handling the business that we each have individually in this [00:09:01] life and then bringing it together so that we can share those parts that that grow our relationship. So Marcel explained the Journey of forgiveness within himself and the Grievances that he's had [00:09:16] with people. And we've had many many conversations about our individual Journeys and it's really laid such a deep Foundation of intimacy and closeness [00:09:31] between us. Sometimes it gets a little complicated sometimes, you know, we want to judge each other and why you can't you do this. I remember one time I was going through something. I had a 30-year separation [00:09:46] from my family and you know families evolve and change and they go through things and at this stage in all of our lives. It just seemed to be the right time for the family to come back together and there were some very deep [00:10:01] deep painful grievances. I don't I can't imagine that I that I know anyone even the best families that I've known and I've known several that are just beautiful but there's always stuff that goes on and there's stuff that you hold on to your angry. [00:10:16] Somebody didn't apologize. Is we didn't accept the forgiveness we didn't accept the apology the person continues to do the same thing over and over again, or we don't have the courage to face the [00:10:32] truth what will happen if we're honest with that person. So there are so many things that cause grievances grudges that require forgiveness to be able to really move forward in. Joyful fulfilling. [00:10:47] In relationships and it's really deeply personal. You know, how you get on that journey and how you move through it, and like Marcel was saying it's not it's almost not really an arrival point. You do [00:11:02] get to a point where your where you can and will Marcel and I will cover this later where you may feel that you've arrived at a place of forgiveness, but forgiveness is something that that you never just [00:11:17] do. And you're done for the rest of your life. There's it's you check-in. It's like getting an oil change, you know, you have to you know, sort of do that tune-up do that oil change maintain, 

Yes, you have to practice it on [00:11:32] a daily basis and believe me. I was them. I say I fail a lot with a lot of these ideas and but it's a Relentless Pursuit a continual being persistent to arrive at what you really want. And for me, it's I'm in my [00:11:47] 50s. I'll be 54 this year and I'm really realizing what do I want more in this world than anything, you know selfishly I just want I want peace. I want to be okay when I wake up. I don't want the past to cause me any pain or angst or regret. I don't [00:12:02] have any anxiety or worry about the future and I have children and what I hope for them is that if they were something happened to me and they never heard from you again. God forbid but this podcast would help [00:12:17] him. Make it through the rest of this crazy world we live in and that we can navigate once we find the source of strength within ourselves and it doesn't depend on someone or something or you're any amount [00:12:32] of money and amount of car any career that no matter what comes their way. They will be able to handle it. So so this podcast if they tune into it, there's really what anybody and so so this whatever this fume [00:12:47] View Must we spend together anybody could tune in and go. Wow, that guy's dying breath. That's what he would say. He that's what he would say that this is it is to forgive. Yeah, and with that, you were able to really love [00:13:02] and let go. Yes. 

Well the emotion and I know you well enough to know what I see in you I see and myself is that it does when you know, there are certain things that you think about and it just touches and it just reaches so deep I mean [00:13:18] You know Marcel has been through some really major life events as well. And for me, I just I mentioned, you know the separation in my family and we did that in stages my brother. My brother's family wanted me to forgive my parents [00:13:33] and that was again. It was a 30-year separation and Marcel my boyfriend wanted me to forgive my family and I just I knew I wasn't in that space yet. [00:13:48] With things that were holding me back there were issues that I didn't believe were resolved and I think when I think back on it now, I think that I was afraid of being hurt again feeling that pain that caused [00:14:03] so much. Yeah, just so much pain. I just didn't want to go there again, and I thought and I had packed it all up. I put it away and it was on a shelf somewhere and I was really comfy and cozy and [00:14:18] A p not dealing with it for years. I just moved Beyond it and I was done but life changes. My nephew was born my family, you know, we evolved as human beings and circumstances dictated that [00:14:33] for me after much much thinking and soul-searching that I would take that step to towards. My parents really wanted to my father really wanted to reconcile with me. [00:14:48] And so I we had a phone call. We just had a phone call and then we had another phone call and we kept it light and then we had another phone call and then I was invited to the house [00:15:03] for dinner. Don't don't don't huh? 

They're your death dinner potentially with the Trap. What a mess. 

So [00:15:18] so some context for you that purpose it might my dad and I so we in my adult life. I mean, we hadn't had a relationship. It's just very very complicated on many levels, but just to you know for so that this isn't a five-hour [00:15:33] Show episode my mother the Crux of the issue is really between my mother and I and my father just got caught in the crossfire and you all I'm sure listeners listening and going. Oh, yeah. I know you know how to fight with my sister-in-law and my brother's car. [00:15:48] You know, I haven't talked to my brother forever because my sister by the way, my sister-in-law's an angel. I love her crazy and I love my brother too. But so I go to dinner my mother and I are face-to-face. We're both really really strong women and we sit there and [00:16:03] what I found out what we both found out later was that both of us were afraid that we each hated the other one. So neither one of us wanted to let our guard down. So what [00:16:18] happened in real-time was a total mess picture Bambi on the ice. We're having small talk or insulting. She's insulting me left and right doesn't even realize it. I don't you know that she just doesn't know she's it's just a mess we're [00:16:33] whatever so so then I go home and decide to do it again because I had committed to my brother and my boyfriend and myself that I was going to give this. [00:16:48] I was going to do this that I was I wanted to create an atmosphere at least that won't family the family got together that it would be peaceful. So it took a couple of meetings and then one day my mother opened the door a little crack and [00:17:03] I opened the door a little crack and we I said to her one of the most frightening things ever. Do you want to be friends or do you just [00:17:18] Just want to be civil because the answer would be horrible. Right? It would be no. I really don't care which is what she told other family members again in protective mode. And for me. I just I really wanted to [00:17:33] be in peace and I think that this is the Crux. Somebody asked me now all these, you know all this a year later. How are you able to get on the road? How were you able to forgive? How was your mother able to ask? [00:17:48] Forgiveness and you accept her apology and I said that what I really really believe is that when what you're trying to achieve your when you know your goal and that goal is greater [00:18:03] than anything else that can happen around it. That's where the focus is and for both my mother and I the focus was on creating something new and making a wonderful experience. [00:18:18] Else for her grandson my godson nephew. So we were focused on the family. We weren't focused on the fighting that we had done. So when that happened and we kind of got really really honest with each other and [00:18:33] just you know, ask each other for permission to put stuff on the table and just had honest conversations and it was a series of I don't know eight or ten conversations that seem to last for hours and hours, but at the end of the day, I'm [00:18:48] Sitting here A year later, and my mother is one of my best friend's my Marcel and I have spent so much time with my parents and you know, like my mother said she said, you know Sophia we mature we grow we change and [00:19:03] you know, I want to be in relationship with you. 

That was a bonus. She didn't expect I caused your mother was the gatekeeper to your father and there was a dynamic there. [00:19:18] R and so she finally gave quote permission for your father to speak with you and then you spoke them for like 2 minutes. Then he goes here hands the flow to his wife, which is your month. And the irony is you and your mother speak for every 10 minutes [00:19:33] you speak you and your father speak 15 seconds, but call me. 

[00:19:48] We enjoy each other so much now it really was it was a decision to get honest. Yeah, it was a decision to forgive. My father asked me before we actually got together. I know because obviously he was [00:20:03] terrified. I'm all of us is like World War 3 and the Cuban household, right? My father said do you have forgiveness in your heart? And I said, yes, I do if we can get honest and if we can move forward. [00:20:18] In a healthy honest way. Yes. Absolutely. I'm ready to move forward and my mother was too and we just found one thing that was a common ground and then just [00:20:33] started talking and just laid bare and I think it takes an enormous amount of Courage. She was terrified that I would, you know, not accept her and I'm her daughter, you know, I'm her firstborn and she's my mother. [00:20:48] And we never established a relationship when I was younger but funny enough both of us have so much in common and we look alike and she had me when she was 21 years old and she made a lot of mistakes and that's the other thing [00:21:03] put yourself in the other person's shoes. You have to get humble you have to dig deep just like our interests as I got really humble and I really thought I really really put myself in. Her [00:21:18] shoes and thought who was I at 21? What did I know? You know, how could she possibly have felt coming to this country getting married pregnant, you know all you know [00:21:33] within six months. It must have been terrifying and I told her that I said Mom, you know, I I could imagine if I was in your shoes. I probably would have been pretty angry 

person to are you know thought [00:21:48] Came to my mind when you were saying that is is whatever happens to you is what you know, so you usually project that and perpetuate your experience to whoever it doesn't matter who it could be your own daughter. So I [00:22:03] have to explain when I said that death dinner. So Cynthia's allergic to Seafood. So when we showed up they had a nice spread and the center of the spread with these huge jumbo cocktail shrimp Cynthia go. See she's trying To [00:22:18] kill me. She's not here and she says try shrimp 

and then you Cynthia because you're allergic to shrimp. You know, she's allergic to shrimp. [00:22:33] It's like the center of these of the first dinner after 30 years. It's like but she's trying to kill me and don't you just try to kill me. There are other things and you know, it's spare in the details and look at the broad view. There's a lot of [00:22:48] Stuff that went on when Cynthia was younger. Yeah, and that really caused her to I guess you ran away as soon as you could and we're out on your own and that's one of the things that drew me to you. When I first met you was that you just [00:23:03] were a street fighter you didn't care. You just needed where you didn't want to be you took a chance on yourself and you left and you learn how to fight your very street smart, but you're very delicate as well. And so but it's so that forgiveness aspect. So, [00:23:18] I don't know if you want to do the spoiler alert on what I said about why can't you forgive so yeah, I think that that's actually that's really important because it brings in, you know when nothing happens in a bubble in [00:23:33] relationships. You may think it does you may think that the grievances that you have with people are separated from your relationship. The reality is that it spills into your life. You know, what happens at work spills into your personal life. What happens in your purse? [00:23:48] Life spills into your work life, you know, so my you know not having a relationship with my parents Marcel had a really and he'll share with you really horrible experience happen in his life as well [00:24:03] and we were dinner one day and we'd had a glass of wine or two. It gets a little too real and I put on my condescending a holier-than-thou mightier than you hat and Oh I [00:24:18] said what did I say? Say it 

I said I forgave the guy. That murdered my brother. Why can't you forgive your parents? [00:24:33] Yeah, and I get emotional because I guess I've said that a thousand times now and I didn't tear up wants but I guess it's because context because I feel I'm living my life purpose now. Yeah, and that's why these are tears of joy. So my brother my oldest brother [00:24:48] was like a father to me. We were extremely close. I mean, he taught me how to fish and I've said is that on the web yet upside down I have forgiven the guy because I'm just hearing them. 

Happy back that [00:25:03] I can send love to my brother's murderer and it took me a long time. But really it was very condescending and again she and I do a lot of work but it was a somewhat egotistical way. It was my first game that guy that murdered my brother. Why can't you forgive your parents? She says [00:25:18] scuse me scoot her chair back. I thought she's gonna throw the wine of my face. She goes that is so condescending. No, actually what I said to you for someone who's on. 

On the path of spiritual if [00:25:33] you're sure it's so nice. 

Really nice 

Buddha. It's like hey, I quit drinking why can't you you know, and so I got I backed off [00:25:48] but then coming back to the topic here, which is forgotten. She forgave me for that. I think my throat's not slit, so I guess she did forget me. Well, you know what? I did. I actually took your 

Watch the toilet - I'm kidding. I'm done. 

[00:26:04] That's okay. I won't tell you what I do with your toothbrush, but that happened and actually so the next morning I was I kind of like [00:26:19] I looked at him. I mean clearly understandable that I was kind of a little bent and I looked at him and said seriously, you're gonna judge my forgiveness. Goodness, that's a personal Journey. You have no [00:26:34] idea what's gone on in all of my years 

and your own time. 

And you were amazing as well. You looked at me and you said you know, and this was really important to you because when he said this to me it resonated so deeply we were having this conversation. [00:26:49] He said I just want you to feel the same peace that I feel through the Forgiveness of my brother's murderer, and I said to you And at that moment and that's where you sort of dig deep [00:27:04] and you get humble. You know, that's you saying to me look. I know I said that this is why I said it came from a place of love. It came out like a total mess. But really I just want you to be happy because I love you [00:27:19] and that meant so much to me. I mean the fact that you cared, you know enough to want that for me as well and interestingly enough. If you know a year later, by the way, I call it the Cintron [00:27:35] forgiveness tour because Marcel and I have been down to visit my parents per year. We've eaten we've got two concerts. We traveled we've laughed we've just had the best time and it's been such a gift [00:27:50] to have my best friend. My partner the person who's on this Relentless journey to joy and happiness and peace with me. I'm sort of being that litmus test and the same way that I've been with him through the [00:28:05] stuff that he's going through. I mean, we're both I mean, like I said, it's not a destination forgiveness is kind of like that train that rail that Amtrak like it stops at different points all the time, but it that, you know the next day [00:28:20] it like keeps going, you know, there's always a tuneup on that forgiveness. There's always something new to forgive even with yourself or whatever and my It's been such a gift to have for us to do [00:28:35] this together. But my forgiveness of my parents has by the way. I never looked for it. Like I just didn't care. I was done. I'm not person that if it's done it's done. It's buried I never want to hear about it again. It doesn't matter. 

I'm a court would she told me when I first met my [00:28:50] parents are dead to me is what you said you asked like, yep. No, I don't do that. Now, they're gone. I buried them in my mind. I'm going on, you know, and it's do and I'm like wow. Him this girl's for real. 

Okay. [00:29:05] Yeah, I want a date that I want to date crazy so crazy, but you know, you said you're French you're Cuban and you're Lebanese. And you said the French will make you a wonderful dinner. I know the Cuban will make you a wonderful dinner the French will remain [00:29:20] shoe. But then the Lebanese and she took her thumb like it was a knife blade in with Brandon and I thought okay that's exciting. 

I now keep it moving. 

Forgiveness, I think [00:29:35] what people over SI or don't realize or don't know and if they check into a place where you've had you felt a wrong you've gone to forgiveness and then check into where you have felt and the [00:29:50] result of that forgiveness and it's so powerful. I mean for Marcel and I it's created a deeper level of intimacy. And relationship and knowing each other we have the shorthand [00:30:05] and it's just been really amazing. I mean, I never thought and I've actually had some friends say to me that have known me for 30 years and Sophia, you know, you just kind of seem lighter and I can't put my finger on it. I can't say that like my entire [00:30:20] world changed overnight and music played and it was epic and all this stuff and there wasn't a moment. Although there was a moment where we're really turned between my mom and die, but I will tell you that [00:30:37] the gift that I've given to myself that I've given to those around me and that my mother has given to herself and that we've given to those around us has been unexpected and truly [00:30:53] epic 

it has I've been the first-hand witness to that and just so so sparring all Sperry and all the lurid details of the bad past her parents bought us tickets to a Pitbull concert [00:31:08] and they went first last time that was amazing. So and 

oh and on that note, we'll be right 

[00:33:30] Welcome back to fight the good fight club with Marcel and Cynthia and we were talking about forgiveness. Okay, we've talked about my family Marcel you had some thoughts. 

[00:33:45] Yeah. So regarding forgiveness, I guess if you look at it and think about it, there's two examples of My Life One is I feel that I have totally forgiven and there's no going back. Act there's no waffling back and forth. [00:34:00] And then there's another one that is an ongoing forgiveness. So I'd mention what happened to my oldest brother in a nutshell. He was literally sitting in his kitchen table eating a hotdog and [00:34:15] there's this guy comes in and is robbing him and then he had a girl with him and the girl went the back room was trying to get what she could and the girl heard the guy go my brother. I say I don't point that gun at me and then all of a sudden boom and so [00:34:30] shot my brother killed him and so my brother was a really good guy lived in a rough neighborhood and it's but he was such a good guy that there are people around that heard what happened and knew who did it. So the cops started case and they caught the guy bottom line and they caught [00:34:45] him drinking a beer going down the road and they brought him in and said, oh by the way listen to this and they were telling and so they arrested him for murder. And so the So trial date came up, they picked a trial and all that but cut [00:35:00] to the chase. The guy was found guilty. He got a double life sentence plus 25 years and one for burglary One Life second one for murder and 25 for arson and you know, just the graphic details. [00:35:15] I'm going to tell him he tried to burn my brother's body to dispose of the evidence. My mother does not know that to this day. So you think I should hate the guy so during the trial is in Jacksonville, Florida our brother Ma. Like Pope so we're sitting there and [00:35:30] what I was selfishly happy about myself was I didn't want to cause a dramatic scene on you know, for the news where I leap out of the courtroom and grab the guy you murder my brother and I didn't feel any of [00:35:45] that and I think it was a lot because I'd been pursuing, you know, peace within for a long time and I actually felt bad for him. But the reason I was and I guess is the key point of forgiveness. 

Was easier for me to forgive the guy that murdered my brother [00:36:00] then my sister's husband 

and for the things he had done to my family. So so here's how I was able to forgive my brother's murder in the courtroom after it was done. I was looking at this kid's family when the verdict came out. [00:36:15] I saw them weeping. I thought oh my God, you know, they lost someone too and in fact, my one brother from another mother killed My brother and so so we went to I'm going [00:36:30] up to the roof and I said I'm so sorry. We were crying and hugging saying I'm so sorry, you know, there's say we're sorry. He did what he did and I said I'm so we kind of just in that moment forgiveness was done and you know a little while [00:36:45] later a few years later. I met this guy in business and I kept saying time haven't we met at a conference recently? He's like nah, man, he goes. No, I didn't go to that conference or whatever. So we met for an hour, he left and all of a sudden it [00:37:00] dawned on me. He could have been the twin brother of the guy that killed my brother and I was happy because it didn't trigger any negative emotions or anything. I wasn't feeling uncomfortable, you know, and so [00:37:15] so with that being said, you know, I think about the guy and so I'm going to talk about how to actually forgive but before I do that, so I forgave him. And I send him I think about him sometimes a conversation. [00:37:30] I send him love and I send him light I hope he's doing okay. Hope I don't wish bad things are happening to him while he's in prison. I hope that he finds peace within himself. In fact, I send it to him. I thought I hope you receiving this piece. I'm sending you now on the other [00:37:45] hand last year. Roughly this time I get a phone call from my mother come get me she lives in Jacksonville. So I went there and got her she came down to stay with me and has never left. She's 84 all Sudden, I hear all these horrible things that my brother-in-law has been doing [00:38:00] to her stealing from her possession stealing money, you know extorting money out of me using her to do it and she had some grave plots that she hadn't died and he conned [00:38:15] her into signing those over to her. And so of course, I'm angry the guy not and I haven't been able to forgive him. So I've been trying to so I thought also this show would help me forgive. Him and so and you're more [00:38:30] apt to do something when you kind of throw it out there. You want to be a hypocrite and prepare and it wasn't even really preparation for the show. I just thought of what I would topic I'd talk about and it's really him. So in my heart, I have forgiven him for the things he did even [00:38:45] though I have asked him and my sister just please give those gray plots back return some of the things you took and they don't even respond. They don't even acknowledge. They deny it in fact, so I let it go. Because I realize hold on to that like that heater in [00:39:00] the room. You'd want it to be cool, but you don't want to turn off the heater. I'm turning off the heat or I'm letting it go. I'm forgiving them. Now. I'm picturing him. So this is how I'm doing it as I'm doing it because I know I'm going to have a backslide or whatever. I'm sending him light. [00:39:15] I'm sending him love and in this is how I did it when I was about 12 years old. He and I were out in a canoe in the anchor got stuck. He told me to swim down it and Done and done hang it and I was only 12 [00:39:30] when I swam down there. I thought okay, he's making me do this. I pick up the anchor. I think it was around 10 or 12 pounds and I almost drowned but I didn't let go of the anchor. I made it to the top and barely man almost round. So so I was holding that against him see other things [00:39:45] besides what he did to my mother so I thought okay. I'm going to bundle everything up. I'm holding against him into that anchor and here's the key point of what I've learned about forgiveness. I confronted him. He completely forgot. I didn't even remember [00:40:00] so that anchor has in it the things they did to my mother the things he did to me and I dropped it and encourage. I pictured it [00:40:15] going to the deepest a deaths to Oblivion and I let it go and now I'm sending him lighten up sending them love and I know that it's probably going to recur, but honestly, I'm feeling So much relief and that's the topic giving is receiving. I want [00:40:30] people who want forgiveness. I want peace and you only get it if you give it 

and in my mind I'm saying him. Look. 

I've been holding on to this anchor of grievances. It's not even affecting him. Probably. [00:40:45] It's affected me because I'm holding on to it. So I forgive him by letting it go and letting it go I have forgiven him is forgiving myself and I let it go. So now if I think about him, You and I have a problem with that feel anger. I'm getting you know, what I drop that anchor [00:41:00] a long time ago, and I'm going to stick with it. And I know it's taken I'm probably 90% more along for giving him closer to a hundred. I hope by stating this and trying to share forgiveness and how [00:41:15] to do it because I really I want to be rid of those feelings. I don't want them anymore because I know I want to be cool. I'm getting the heater out of the room. I'm kicking not turn it off. I'm getting rid of it. Either all together so really that's so one was a permanent forgiveness already. [00:41:30] The other ones are work in progress and I do feel I feel relief. I don't want to hate him anymore. I don't want to be angry at him and I know that he's probably still going to try to do some things if he does, you know, I forgive them already and my I don't even talk about my sister who's right in there with him. So 

[00:41:45] yeah, and I've done some forgiveness exercises also in some workshops that I did and one of the things that they said dovetailing into what you're saying, Or your dog dropping the anchor they added on to that [00:42:00] I forgive you and I set myself free from the things that are holding me back and that's what's happened. Cause that's what you're doing when you're forgiving yourself setting yourself free and it doesn't require the other person to say they're sorry. It doesn't require. I mean [00:42:15] when I went through that exercise of forgiveness with my mother, I really wasn't expecting anything from her the apology from her was a huge bonus. You have to for me not you me when I go [00:42:30] into a thought of forgiving somebody and setting myself free from something that is really hurting me or bothering me or holding me back from accomplishing the things that I want to accomplish it really is about my experience. If you are [00:42:45] waiting if you have expectations attached to it, if you're waiting for your brother's murder to say sorry, if you're waiting for your brother-in-law to say he's sorry if you're waiting for that you will wait till the cows. Has come home that's it. It's just and your happiness and joy [00:43:00] are not should not cannot be dependent on what someone else 

does so important, right? Exactly and that the like a talk mention in the beginning everything that we ever need [00:43:15] is within us the moment. We look for something outside of ourselves are counting on someone to forgive us or say or to say, I'm sorry, right? You have all the power within you to let it go. So [00:43:30] so it's not outside of you. It's in you. So the fact that I let that go all was Within Me independent of whether he says I'm sorry or acknowledges. He's a non-factor in the whole thing. Yeah. So if nothing else, you know again, you give [00:43:45] what you want you get what you get, right? And again, this is totally about the internal facets of us as Spiritual Beings, right? 

Yeah. Definitely I think Think that it's really important. I know that it's been important for me to [00:44:00] really sit down and be honest with what outcome serves you. Yeah, what do you want to accomplish when you know when I went into the Forgiveness with my parents my goal [00:44:15] was to create an environment that was peaceful and healthy for my nephew. So it was just to be civil. So it was a Small goal that it that would make that would satisfy me that [00:44:30] I would be okay with that that was you know, so that I can move through this and and and I would just let everything else go and I think that that's the thing that really helped us. I'm really fortunate. I'm super fortunate [00:44:45] my mother and my father were they've been through a lot also while their kids or whatever and they're in a place now where they have everything anybody could ever want in their lives. But they want the love of their kids and so we [00:45:00] were already we were all at that place where we were ready to do this and interestingly enough. I wanted to bring this up real quick because I you know, we're going to wrap up soon and Marcel and I wanted to touch on we found an article that talked about 5 [00:45:15] ways to tell if you have forgiven and sometimes you don't know because we were talking about this is like, how do I know if I've even forgiven this person's like I'm not sure so I went online and You doing some research and I found something that really felt right and we'd like to share that with you. [00:45:30] But just recently a few weeks ago. My something came up that was reminiscent of something that would ordinarily in the past. Send me through the roof and normally would cause [00:45:45] me to just lock it down shut it down and end the relationship with my parents. So it's just one of those things that happen because it's really important people don't just stop doing you know scorpion is ask or piano progress, you know, people are who they are and you really have to meet them [00:46:00] where they are. So if you want to be in relationship with them, so this situation came up, it caused a little bit of grief between Marcel and I he checked in on he made clear what he needed. I made clear what [00:46:15] I needed. I took some time I step back and I thought about what do I want to accomplish? What do I need? What does this grievance really mean in the scheme of things. So I didn't act rashly. I didn't you know [00:46:30] make phone calls. I didn't yell hop up and down and scream. Yeah, I was angry. By the way. I was in my I was like punching a pillow. I was fit to be tied. I was so mad. I can't believe we've gone through all this and now this happened this is over. I'm going to shut this down. We're not going to have a relationship [00:46:45] and I went all up in my Cuban female woman self. So but you know, I felt my feelings and then I settle down and then I Thought about okay. What does this really mean in the context [00:47:00] of my life in the context of all of our lives and Marcel and I spoke and we came to agreement on how we were going to handle it and I'm very happy to say that not only did it work out. Its [00:47:15] the outcome was even better and we're so good and for me that tells me that I've really learned how to let that go and that my relationship and my happiness. Enos and my joy and the people that I love their happiness and their Joy is much more important [00:47:30] to me than holding a grudge that means nothing and it's just pain right, 

correct. So yeah, and another key concept here is about forgiveness. Sometimes if you remove yourself from the equation and I said to Cynthia, you know, you're in your mother [00:47:45] probably are identical. I bet the things that have happened you probably happen to her and then she projected am onto you. So the I've always believed this believe that turtle People hurt inside and then as a consequence, [00:48:00] they hurt others. So you're just passing along the hurt Until you realize what you're doing and become aware of what's happening. And I think it becomes a place to where okay, I'm losing, you know forgive I guess it's okay to say this [00:48:15] but if some point you'd said to your mother is it okay if we just move forward and go on without saying specifically so at any rate. 

Yeah. Yeah just It generally yeah, I had a feeling that something that had happened to [00:48:30] me as a child had also happened to my mother and I asked her and she said yes and that was actually the starting point of our having conversations I was right in my assumption and we had a common [00:48:45] hurt right because we're all human beings my mother and I had a comment hurt and when we when I told her that I believed her and that I supported her and that I was sorry that he Up into her the same way they would happen to me and she said she was sorry as well. It gave [00:49:00] us a common ground to start from and it was a seed and it was pretty amazing. It was 

that first conversation and into not even your defense, but I can tell you that I see you have forgiven them. Yeah, because if we see like a residual [00:49:15] action from them that they seem like who they were we laugh about it we laugh and that is a great because we know who they are. 

Exactly and [00:49:30] that's in your true. You're right and that's actually a great segue to this article. So we want it every episode. We'd like to leave somebody with something that we use to help us sort of get further along in our path. Right? [00:49:45] So my fellow we found this article on I disciple dot-org and basically it's five ways to check in with yourself. Then recognize if you truly have forgiven and in reading [00:50:00] these they made so much sense, and I thought they were great starting point. So if and I'll just say for myself if I if I feel that I forgiven someone and I'm not exactly sure like before we started the podcast I actually said to Marcel light, [00:50:15] you know, I think that there's a forgiveness that I've done but I'm not really exactly sure because this is someone that I don't have in my life that I don't want to have in my life, but I'm not yeah, I want to make sure so I'm using this as a litmus test, you know to know that [00:50:30] to see if I need more work to do or if I'm really in a good place with that. So the first one is when the first thought you have about them is not the injury they caused in your life. So when you think about this person and the first [00:50:45] thing that you think about isn't the injury and you don't go into it like it's a movie on blast like when Marcel said that he met this gentleman who looked just like his Mother's murder and it didn't even occur to him because he just [00:51:00] has let that go right correct. The second one ask yourself. Would you help them if you knew that they were in trouble and you had the ability. That's powerful because I'll tell you what, I've [00:51:15] heard myself say there, you know run over on the side of the road when I like go pick them up. No, yeah that might require some forgiveness or if they're in jail at two o'clock in the morning and called you would you come get that would you come [00:51:30] pick up that person who you consider is your is your greatest? Enemy, you know the third one. Can you think positive thoughts about that 

person send them light? and then love 

this send them lights and them love [00:51:46] number four of five do you still think of getting even with that person 

that's a good 

one that's like that's why yeah are you waiting for them to say they're sorry are you waiting for the next shoe to drop 

yeah do you hope [00:52:01] something bad happens to them what you don't want that because that's not part of Love they don't wish bad things on people if you're coming from a place of 

Love exactly and that's number five when you have stopped not wearing my glasses [00:52:16] when you have stop looking for them to fail are you looking for Revenge you know And these are when I was reading these and talking to Marcel about it. I thought you know, what a great place to stop. So, you know, I know for [00:52:31] myself, you know, I definitely am going to go back and have a moment that moment of meditative the five minutes in the morning or maybe at the end of the night may be before or after you think about gratitude in your life. Maybe think about, you know, check in with different parts in your life [00:52:46] check in on the thoughts that you've had. Are you thinking about this person or this situation a lot? Lat, I think the first the first part of change in any form is becoming aware is becoming aware 

[00:53:02] aware of your feelings really is corny as that may sound but really need to know what you're feeling inside and why become aware of that exactly and then do you want those feelings? Mmm, then you say how do I get rid of them? And that's where the answer start coming from within yourself. Everybody knows the stuff I think of [00:53:17] it is so hard to live at 

the, yeah, and I think that you know, that's Kind of let's part of this podcast, you know, when you're ready to get real get deep and get humble because [00:53:32] we were ready to be happy peace ready to wake up happy and go to sleep happy and full of love and joy live for now forget the shame guilts regrets of the past no fear anxiety or anxiety or worry of the future [00:53:47] be happy now. Yeah, I think that's our show for today wonderful. Excellent. So, If you'd like to participate in the conversation, we'd love to hear from you. Look trying to look us up fight the good fight club on [00:54:02] Facebook and we'll see you next time. I'm Cynthia Cintron and I'm Marcel Pope and this is fight the good fight club.